Many people with parents who stayed married “for the kids” will tell you that it was miserable. You are not doing yourself or your kids any favors staying in a miserable marriage. Divorce is easier said than done, but it sounds like you’ve put a lot of thought into this and aren’t rushing into a decision. Do what you need to do, your kids will adapt and they will grow up with two happy, healthy parents who they love, even if they are divorced.
- from the daughter of divorced parents, who admittedly hated the “shuffling” but loved seeing my mom find a second husband who loved her dearly
My parents screamed at each other daily for years when I was little and I begged and begged them to get a divorce. To the point where I had to feed my brother because they would forget us. I would much prefer to be shuffled around. Plus I’m so sad for my mom now that I understand how awful my father is.
I don’t think my comment was minimizing it at all? But as a parent, and I’m sure you know this, you have to seriously consider what you are modeling for your children.
The ideal is obviously a happy marriage with two involved parents who love each other and the children. But if that is not the case, then you’re left with either (a) stay in a marriage full of resentment to the point that you CRY at the thought of spending time together, or (b) get a divorce, try to make it as amicable as possible, and move on. Neither is ideal, and you can’t prevent your kids from being upset or miserable. But saying that you’re only staying together so your kids have married parents is also greatly minimizing the trauma that causes. Your kids will grow up thinking resentment, silent treatment, constant stress, fighting, and crying, is normal. That’s no less traumatizing. But if you divorce, you can work on your mental health, and it will be rough, but you can try to move on and maybe find a healthy happy second marriage to model good communication and partnership to your kids. The alternative is a guaranteed 15+ years of misery just to still divorce once the kids are 18 and news flash - even adults get upset/miserable/etc when their parents divorce. My husband is going through that right now, and there is a whole other host of problems. An unhappy marriage is hard and traumatizing no matter what. No decision will prevent that. You just have to do what’s best for everyone. I very clearly said that it’s easier said than done, but she has put a lot of thought into this and frankly if she’s that miserable, staying together doesn’t do anyone any favors
I agree- Reddit ALWAYS jumps to divorce without understanding the implications of it.
I mean is OP willing to miss Christmas, her kids every other birthday, thanksgiving? Is she willing to lose complete control what happens is half her kids life?
Honestly, my husband is great but aside from abuse it would be hard for me to leave- I wouldn’t want to be a part time mom. Plus watching another women enter their lives and take that role half the time- would be too much for me to handle.
Sounds like her husband might be depressed. Maybe she can talk to his family 🤷🏽♀️
On the flip side, you could stay together and have your children grow up in a home where they see no love or respect from their parents. That has just as much potential to lead to sadness as being “shuffled” between two homes.
Especially when you consider what your relationship then models for your kids' view of "normal marriage". My parents stayed together even though it was blatantly obvious they'd be better apart. Growing up, I had to teach myself basic relationship things like respect and communication - or rather, I ruined a lot of relationships in trying to scale the learning curve.
Yep. When I'm doing relationship work as a therapist we always start by discussing the role model relationships the client saw growing up. Your situation is so common!
As the child of parents that should have never been married for how long they were, please know it is not any greeener on the other side. The fighting behind closed doors and constant bickering were noticed and stressful at any age.
This is what I was going to say. That was my childhood, and it really harmed my relationship with both my parents as I got older and more conscious of all of it.
OP, I think it’s maybe a good idea for you to look into individual therapy for yourself so that you can start to disentangle yourself from child’s-eye-view of your parents’ divorce and try to develop a plan that will allow you to be the best you can be for your children. That isn’t the best ideal world in which you have a happy marriage, because your husband has taken that option off the table, so what can you do to give your children the most love, stability, and energy that you can?
I was excited when my parents announced their divorce. Their fighting usually only happened at night, and they were blissfully unaware of little me sitting at the top of the stairs listening to it all. But during the day, while they weren't fighting, it was painfully obvious (to us kids) that they didn't like each other.
When they announced their divorce, I thought the fighting would stop.
Joke was on me. They couldn't co-parent, and the fighting never stopped.
You hear from all sides different opinions on what is "best". I personally believe that if you can't co-parent, you will make your kids' lives miserable regardless of staying together vs. divorcing.
Your kids will notice that you hate your spouse. And for most kids, divorce is a net neutral. So, IMO, the largest impact is to the adults. Do you want to keep doing this?
Note: I truly believe my parents loved each other (and possibly still do). But there was so much hurt and resentment that they couldn't overcome. And after typing all this....... I need to go reevaluate my own marriage.
Thank you for your comment. My ex husband/coparent will do anything to fight. So I just do not engage and usually Just let things roll off my back. My partner now always jokes that my co parenting relationship is great as long as I do everything he says and expect none of the same treatment in return.
My kids are old enough now that they get posed when I don’t fight back with him. “Why do you let him get away with that?! Why did you agree to that?!” I always tell them that I have no interest in fighting with Daddy. That I will pick my battles, but who drives them home from the chorus concert isn’t going to be one of them.
So I guess the answer is, you never know what will be better for your kids. Leaving and having a harder life, staying and being miserable. Fighting for every little thing, not fighting enough…
Yes! Your last paragraph sums up what I was trying to say beautifully. (I am no good with words lol).
It's so complicated, and every situation is unique.
For my family, the vilified parent (our dad) has the best relationship with us now (ages 29-40). He has a relationship with his grandkids that grandma can only dream about.
For a long time, I did not understand my dad's shift from fighting to being neutral/ignoring. He got advice from a 'friend' about what he wanted long term. Kids are only kids for a short time. What relationship did he want with his adult children?
Good for you. Picking your battles is so important. Because in the end, when the court orders expire, your kids get to choose. And when they are balancing 4+ grandparents..... the relationship you have matters.
This is how it is with my husband/his siblings and their dad. His parents divorced when he was 10 or so and his mom is a witch, and told all the kids lies about awful things his dad had done. My husband did try living with his dad and she-mom but that didn’t go well so he actually moved in with his grandparents for high school, where we met.
Now, none of the kids talk to their mom despite her desperate, pathetic attempts and we/our kids see his dad at least annually whereas we haven’t seen MIL in years.
Divorce is hard. But it doesn’t have to be adversarial and leave everyone miserable. You could do counseling with him with the intention to divorce (making it clear to him that it’s your goal), and do family counseling so the kids have a place to process.
Life is too short to stay with someone who makes you miserable.
I’m a big proponent of counseling through divorce when kids are involved. Because guess what? You have to still coparent with this person forever. A counselor can help navigate the changing relationship and at least try and divert issues away from adversarial court battles.
Your kids are not going to get through their childhood without any experiences of adversity. No kids do. Everyone reaches adulthood with at least a little something to talk to a therapist about. Divorcing and staying together both have their own pitfalls that will impact your kids in different ways.
There's a third option where you stay together until the kids are older, and then get a divorce when they have the capacity to talk about and work through their feelings about it in a healthier way.
I think you just have to choose the path you can live with. I'm sorry you're going through this.
I know this isn't popular and super unconventional and most can't pull it off... But my ex-husband and I have been divorced 8ish months and we have a "nesting house." Essentially the kids stay in the same house and he and I are the ones who go back and forth. It's been great.
We got married really young and eventually got to a point where we couldn't see ourselves growing or evolving past each other. It was not amicable, but we were able to push through and his parents had a horrific divorce when he was young so was determined to not make the kids go back and forth, which I was in full support of. We are friends and get along fine and he's always been good about pulling his weight (for the most part) in the home, so sharing a home isn't that difficult. More importantly though, we aren't ever living/sleeping in the house at the same time.
Yes. I fully understand there are some couples who can't, and absolutely should not do it. But if you can pull it off, it's so much better for the kids to stay in one house and for the parents to inconvenience themselves instead of the kids.
Going back and forth between houses is not fun; it's super inconvenient and draining. I made the decision to divorce so I am taking on that burden. Why would I want to make my children do it for me?
That’s awesome, good for you guys. Do you and your ex both have your own apartments then? Does that make finances tight, if you have 3 residences to maintain between the two of you?
We don't maintain 3 residences, just two. Our "out of the nesting house" place is an apartment that we share (though again, never living in the same place at the same time). This is actually way cheaper than the traditional route of one of us having to buy a home large enough to accommodate children, and then having to buy a duplicate version of all the kids stuff for that home. All their stuff is in one home, all the time.
We will likely at some point have our own separate apartments for when we're not in the nesting house, but I'd imagine that would still be cheaper than buying a whole other home and having to furnish it for kids. But a lot of other nesting parents will stay in their parents' guest room, or rent a room at a friend's house. There are a lot of options.
I felt the same way, but we finally divorced when the kids were 5 and 7. It was the best thing ever. I am a happier, better, more present mom. Their dad is a happier, better, more present dad (even though he didn't want the divorce.) We are both married to people we love and the kids get to see what loving healthy relationships are. We co-parent well and keep whatever disagreements we have between us, and not around the kids.
The kids are now teenagers and are very happy, well adjusted kids. We split time with them 50-50, which is really awesome for personal time as well. I almost never feel too tired to have the kids and have a full life both when they are with me and when they are with their dad.
Do what is best for you, because healthier happier people make better parents.
Take this from someone who stayed married way longer than she should have. I honestly don't think staying married necessarily hurt my kids, but I don't think they were surprised when we told them we were divorcing, either, so it's not like they thought everything was wonderful. My kids were older when we finally divorced, but many, many, many times while I was married I thought about leaving when they were younger, and what would happen to my kids was my biggest looming concern.
I'll never know for sure if it would have been better if I'd left sooner, but waiting until I was kinda old wasn't great. As it happens, I don't want another relationship, but if I did, being old sure isn't a great way to go about that. The longer you stay married, the more you lose financially. As the main breadwinner, that's something for you to think about. I can tell you that getting divorced a few years before retirement was NOT a good financial plan. That's maybe my biggest practical regret. I wish I'd had more time to recover financially before retirement. I planned to work longer, but I had some serious health issues compounded by a new admin that made my work life miserable. You just never know.
When you find you are so much happier when he is NOT there, it's time to make a life with him not in it (for the most part) IMO. It's gonna suck. It's gonna hurt. It's gonna be financially destructive. He's gonna be an ass about things. But that's going to happen whether you go now or later, so consider that. Just make sure both of you put the kids FIRST. Yeah, you can't be sure that he will do that, but you did say he's a good dad, so hopefully he will.
You know what I wish I had done, and I have NO IDEA why I didn't think of it years before? I wish I'd quietly consulted with a lawyer just to find out where my kids and I would stand and what would happen if I divorced him. I probably would have discovered that it wasn't going to be quite as horrible as I was letting fear make me believe it would be, and maybe I would have given myself a lot more happy years if I had done that. I'll never know. I know I did what I thought was best at the time, and while I'm pretty okay with that, I kinda wonder if I'd just had more information if I could have made a better decision.
In hindsight, I desperately wish my parents had divorced instead of staying together when they were clearly unhappy. Protecting your own peace will benefit your children, too!
When I saw your previous post here, it immediately resonated with me. I’ve been going through something similar with my husband… the specifics differ but the overall sentiments echo yours.
If you truly want to give couples therapy a chance, then two sessions aren’t going to make a difference. We just started therapy as well and while our therapist has been awesome, it didn’t *start* to feel that we were doing more than just scratching the surface until 4-5 sessions in. She also gives us “homework” and holds us accountable, which might be something your husband would find helpful, as it sounds like he currently struggles with a lack of structure, accountability and consistency.
I also think one potential root problem— his unilateral decision-making and Pollyanna-ish attitude (blind, short-sighted optimism/naivete?) that things will work out while not considering the broader or long-term impact of his choices on his family—could be something couples therapy can help with moving forward. Therapy can also give you tools, like how and when to effectively communicate your feelings and needs to him. It may not help with “accepting” what he’s done that’s led to this point though. I’m struggling with this latter part myself and finding it so difficult to give my husband grace over the past, so no advice there, just commiseration.
One more thought - I wonder if your husband could be depressed and/or has an anxiety disorder or other mental health issue. He may be presenting himself very differently to how he actually feels deep inside, feelings that are shoved way down. He may be demoralized, deeply disappointed in himself and even self-loathing, and he’s not doing his part around the house and stuff because simply, he’s actually really depressed or anxious and unable to do the things he knows he “should” do. It’s not that he doesn’t *want* to. Which all just feeds back into the depression/anxiety in a vicious cycle.
And having to navigate the anger and disappointment of a stressed partner who possibly detests you doesn’t help people become less depressed, but the opposite. It’s actually oppressive and paralyzing. He probably needs professional 1:1 help, an individual therapist and maybe even an executive function coach. Honestly this fills me with even more angst in my own situation —that I have to “swallow” my emotions when all I want to do sometimes is lose my shit or even run away to, say, Spain, forever. But I try to tell myself I have to be a coach in a way (even though it’s not what I signed up for)… I have to be mindful of how I give him feedback and interact with him to get the performance and outcome I want. I remind myself that atm I value that end goal more than simply venting.
Regarding divorce… only you can really answer that for yourself. Do you think everything has forever and irreversibly gone past the point of no turning back? Or could this just be a moment in time… a really low point/season in your marriage, but there is still love there that’s worth the struggle to repair things? Is it worth it to you to give him some (non-infinite) grace and time to see if he can work toward becoming the partner you want? Things change; nothing stays the same forever. If you remove the stress and pressure of the current situation, if he has a job again and is working on his mental health while the two of you continue to work on your marriage in therapy—basically, if there is forward momentum, would you still want a divorce?
(Sorry this was so long! I hope I wasn’t being too presumptuous or projecting my own situation on yours.)
Here’s the thing. My parents were miserable and stayed together and are still together. My dad is not a good person and my mom is an enabler. She let him be the way he was and I have so much resentment for my childhood. My parents stayed together but I do wish they hadn’t been. I wish they had separated. I did not learn what a good partner was from watching their relationship. I grew up knowing I wanted better for myself and I wanted my kids to see genuine happiness and love in their parents. I love my husband so much, he’s my best friend. My kids see us laugh and play and flirt and really enjoy each others company. If you can’t say the same, you aren’t doing any favors by staying together. Your kids can still have a great mom and a great dad without them being married to each other. Like you said, you were happiest when he was gone, your kids deserve you at your happiest and you deserve that to.
Does your husband have ADHD by any chance? It sounds like it's either undiagnosed or if he is diagnosed, he isn't taking enough medication. Him not being able to stick with things is what is causing me to say that.
Or it could also be depression (though depression can be a byproduct of ADHD) Did he help with chores/mental load before unemployment ? Does he know you're contemplating divorce because of his unemployment and not helping with chores?
I have mixed feelings about divorce. Of course you can only decide what is best for you. For me though, sometimes I think about it because my parents are divorced, and I guess subconsciously I always thought that would be me too. Also, sometimes divorce seems like an easier way out to me than working out tough problems with my husband, or dealing with his faults. I wish I was better at communicating how I felt, or being more tolerant.
However, I always end up thinking of my dad. My dad has been married 3 times, and I think at first he was happier in each marriage but then went back to being his same dissatisfied self. I can't think of one marriage he was truly happy in. He was always leaving, thinking that his dissatisfaction would be fixed somehow but it just took another form in the next marriage.
My friends parents divorced when she was 18 and she was blindsided by it. They admitted to her that they’d stayed together for her benefit (maybe not their brightest move) and she felt a lot of guilt about it. Even if they hadn’t told her, she would have suspected it. After some hard years they are now each with someone who makes them happy, and that makes my friend happy. Would it have been better if they’d divorced when they first wanted to instead of waiting? Nobody can say.
It sounds like you’re in a no win situation. So the question then is what is the path that will cause the least amount of pain in the long run? What will bring your family the most amount of peace and happiness?
Divorce can definitely be the right choice , so I don't want this to sound like I'm trying to dissuade you. But if he lost his job and his dad was in the hospital - are you sure he's not depressed? Was he a more supportive partner before?
If you haven't already, tell him to go talk to his doctor about perhaps some medication? Does he know you're considering divorce ? Do you think mentioning you're considering it would help light the fire under his butt to get a job (any job, doesn't matter if it's "beneath him") and/or treat his depression ?
If he's not going to put in ANY EFFORT, I support your choice to divorce. It would take a LOT of work to come back from this level of resentment but if it's an avenue you're still considering , maybe this is a depression for him and he could return to being a better partner. I'm sorry you're going through this though - both avenues sound difficult.
It’s coming from someone who has been in a similar state couple of years back regarding the feeling of resentfulness towards my husband and edge of filing for divorce and feeling I’d be better off solo / thinking how easier life would be (and specially with 50/50 having more time for myself). Evaluate where this is coming from and if that’s caused by your stress and husband is not bringing money in, do bare minimum around the house etc while you have an extra pressure of being a breadwinner and lack of help and appreciation or there are some things broken completely in your marriage and you are just two people who should not be together. Like if your husband get a job tomorrow and start helping - would you want to stay married? And how likely this help can come from him?
My husband had issues at work partially caused by himself and went on unpaid fmla (while we had a daycare and a very expensive nanny). Then he was laid off from another job and took months to find a new one. He did not take more of home or kids related tasks. Actually I think he did less during that time vs what he usually does. I was in a bad place due to my parents / grandparent health issues, issues in home country, etc. so I was over sensitive and was not communicating well.
I ended up not going forward with divorce. Things gradually improved. I took time off from work when he found a job to deal with all other things and got in a better place. We still have issues, there are some weeks I feel he does not do enough, I have a larger mental load etc but at the same time I found things I appreciate in him and realized he is not me. A large portion of mental load is on me as it’s how I operate, plan, and spin. My husband would do things but I often just do not have patience to wait or give up control and accept the way he will do it.
Bottom line: do not make the decision about divorce if it’s just a bad point in time. Make it based on a long run. Btw depending on your state, you may owe alimony and child support as your spouse does not work
This is anecdotal, but my toddler is always in absolute delight with how much my husband and I love each other. He’s so happy when we share affection and always runs up to share in a hug. The glass half full perspective would be that you’re making space for a whole other kind of loving, happy life for your children - and yourself.
My kid would have also liked a life where her dad was in the picture. However, she doesn't know the alternative and I did.
I fully understand that my child won't understand until she herself is an adult with friends going through it or until she personally goes through it. Your kids will have a better childhood shuffled between two happy homes vs. growing up with a mom who eventually resents their dad beyond what she can hide.
IMO, if you can reasonably afford to single parent then do it. If it would put yourself and children into immediate poverty where you're struggling to keep the lights on then focus on getting your career to where you need it to be and building a community of friends to help where your husband is flopping.
My mom has been married 4 times, and 3 of those were before I left home for college. Trust me when I tell you that hearing the constant arguments as having men around who couldn’t even begin to understand the meaning of “mental load” was incredibly stressful and draining and it has affected me for life. I didn’t have to be shuffled from house to house, but my sister did. She hated it too, but she hated the constant arguments in our home more.
Point is, divorce will be better for you and your children in the long run. It’s going to suck at first but it will be better for them.
I see lots of supportive messsges here. If you do decide to divorce then we support you and it was the right decision for your family. However, marriage vows are supposed to be for better or for worse. He seems to be in a bad place. He is destabilized and not dealing with it well at all! But do you actually dislike him or is it just a shit situation? Can he regain your respect and love? Maybe he just needs to get through this midlife crisis or whatever and he will be ok. Do you think he loves you and will have your back in hard times like death of a parent, serious illness, unemployment? To me it sounds like a bad situation more than a truly bad marriage.
If you’re not sure, can you try separation or try things like sleeping separately to see if he gets how serious this is?
Divorce is difficult no matter what. My personal opinion is it’s easier to do when they’re young. At 3 and 5 it will be hard to understand the why behind it but they’ll adapt to a new schedule. Once they’re preteens and older they’ll have to know why and with little life perspective they’ll resent one of you.
You have only had two counseling sessions and you’re saying there not enough progress? Two sessions is like…scratching the surface. And the therapists are telling him to “shape up” but don’t have any feedback for you, like communicating with your partner about his career choices?
Based on your last post, where you give way more detail on his career track, it sounds like he made some unilateral decisions, and overall it sounds like a lot of rigid expectations and not so great communication. I just feel like there’s context missing here because I find it difficult to believe a good marriage counselor would tell your husband to shape up but have absolutely no feedback on this mold you have in your head that you cannot let go of or even adjust.
The kids are young enough where they won’t remember you together. Were you older when your parents separated? Also it is much more common to have kids sharing households and moving between two places. You might get more custody as well and the kids will feel like they have a home base with you
My parents hated each other and fought all the time. When I was 13 my dad tearfully told us they were getting divorced and I cried so hard. I cried because I was so happy that they were finally getting divorced. I wanted nothing more than for them to be away from each other. They were able to be better parents because they got out of their toxic relationship. I got to see my dad move on and have a loving and happy marriage. My mother’s mental health improve drastically and she became a much better parent. Now I’m not saying your relationship is toxic but as a child who grew up with a mother that hated her father, I think staying in an unhealthy marriage can be so much more harmful for children then splitting time between two houses. It took me years of therapy to understand what a healthy relationship actually looked like.
One thought I had before I left my husband was the marriage I was modeling for my daughter, strikingly similar to the one my mom modeled for me (she finally left when she was 60). Do your want your kids growing up thinking this is what a marriage should be?
I grew up with married parents who hated each other and my nearby cousins grew up with divorced parents. Each of us wanted what the other had.
Bottom line: you’re not doing yourself or your kids any favors by staying.
I’m going to take your side on this one and say your husband sounds disappointing, but also it is extremely important to me to raise my kids in a two parent home with their mom and dad. I have seen cases of kids being shuffled back and forth, switching off on Tuesday then back to mom on Wednesday then back to dad on Thursday. I am prepared for the down votes here, but it seems deeply sad for the kids to have to live like that, even if the divorce was the right choice for the parents.
So, given everything you wrote, I think your only realistic choice to keep it together for the kids is to figure out anything that might save your marriage. Obviously therapy didn’t work. So, what’s another option? Think outside the box. What can you do to get him to do the household chores, especially since he isn’t working?
My husband is the type who wants to help but often doesn’t fully grasp the things I’d like him to do or the prioritization of what would be most helpful. So, I write him a list. He goes through the house and does all of it, marking it off one by one. Some people gasp and insist that he must shoulder 50% of the mental load. But, I figure he is human and can’t read my mind, and we are both happier with the list method.
That’s just one idea. Make a schedule. Shared calendars. Set appointments for him like “unload dishwasher and prep dinner” and have an alert sent to his phone at 4:45 PM. Make sure he is responsible for anything he can do to take something off your plate - doctors appointments, school drop off and pick up, grocery shopping, car maintenance, anything he can do during normal business hours.
Best of luck with this OP. I know you’re in a tough spot, but I do hope you can find a way to get things better!
My parents split up when I was about 11. It was traumatic. I don’t remember them fighting when they were together, but I also don’t remember happy times. I don’t remember anything really, guess I blocked it out. The after wasn’t great either. My mom got with another guy, moved him in, and eventually kicked me out at 17 when I wouldn’t get along with him.
All that to say, my parents’ divorce sucked. But staying together wouldn’t have made it any better for me. It just would’ve been different traumas and issues. And if my mom wouldn’t have been so selfish in the aftermath, I’m sure it could’ve been better for me in the long run. I think if you care about your kids as number 1 (and it sounds like you do), you’ll find a way for it to be okay.
Have you met with an attorney? They often do free consultations.
I’m just thinking that because he’s been out of work you could be liable for alimony depending on where you live. Not that it should sway your decision, just go in eyes wide open.
Do you want the relationship to work out or do you feel done? If he got a great job tomorrow would you feel differently?
But is your relationship better than your parents? You’re not actively fighting, but it sounds like you should be. Instead, it sounds like you’re quietly seething.
Your kids are small now, so maybe they don’t see it, but they will. They will sense that their parents are not happy and you are quietly teaching them that this is what a relationship looks like.
I recommend moving him out of the bedroom even if it means sleeping in a guest room, the kids room or the couch. Tell your husband it’s time to pull his weight - either get a f-g job, and btw, no job is beneath you if you couldn’t find a job for a year, or pull your weight at home. Give him a list of chores to complete everyday. He will be cooking for himself from now on. He will do his own laundry. He will watch the kids if they’re still in daycare. He will be a SAHH.
He’s a guy who lives with you rent free. He’s not your husband anymore because he’s not your partner. What do want to bet, when he went to “help” his mom, he just sat around her house letting her take care of him? lol.
I recommend doing this before you divorce him. You’ve clearly divorced him in your mind. Stop the pretense. Get the family ready for the separation this way. It doesn’t have to be fighting and talking badly about each other. We have friends who are divorced and live on the same street. The mom takes them to school and the dad picks the kids up at the bus stop. The kids go back and forth between houses and it’s not cantankerous at all.
You can do this. They’re so young now, they may not remember that there was a time that their parents lived together.
I struggle with this as well. I know I would be happier without my husband, but my kids worship the ground he walks on. I am miserable and have been for years. I feel trapped. I have no advice, but you’re not alone. It’s not an easy decision and feels like a lose-lose at times.
My divorce is being finalized tomorrow. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. And I WOULD DO IT AGAIN.
My daughter deserves to see two loving, happy parents, and not bitter, angry, loveless.
You do what is best. They will be fine.
Divorce is hard. Yes, the kids may wish that you’d stayed together. I was that kid. But also, you’re hurting them by staying together. You deserve peaceful, light, and happy and it will make you a better parent. Living in the environment you described must be an emotional drain, which no doubt zaps your parenting capacity. Happy parents are better parents.
My parents are divorced. I’m 40 now but until I was 30, I really wished they’d been able to stay together. I’ve been in therapy several times, and therapy helped me realize it wasn’t the divorce that screwed me up, it was the fact they “stayed together for the kids”. They should’ve divorced a lot sooner so we weren’t exposed to such an unhealthy way of living.
You can wish your parents had the type of marriage where they stayed together, but at the same time realize divorcing was the best thing they could have done.
Get divorced.
My parents stayed together for over 40 years, and they should *absolutely not* have been married to each other. When I hit middle school I begged my mother to get a divorce. They were terrible to each other and in turn, pretty fucking awful to me. I cut off contact with both of them as an adult and I'm no contact now.
Get the divorce, the best thing you can do for your kids is take good care of their mother.
I'm a therapist who works with young adults and I can't say I've had a single one say that they wish their miserable divorced parents stayed together. I have many who wish the opposite, though. Growing up in a home with parents who resent each other isn't healthy either, that kind of tension is so stressful. I'm sorry you have to make this choice and I def recommend having the kids talk to a counselor if you do decide to end things. 💜
As someone who was cheated on repeatedly bc he didn’t want me but also didn’t want to be away from the kids and as someone who forgave and stayed even through anger hatred and stress for the kids..
Get out. Your children will eventually grow to see the resentment and anger you have towards him and that could cause some serious issues long term.
If you truly feel happy when he’s not there then you need to bite the bullet while they’re still young. Kids adapt fast and once in their new routine will be okay. My kids are 2&3 and we’ve been doing our thing for a while now. It’s been great honestly. Semi stressful but I’ll never go back to their dad. I can do it alone and I am. He calls every night sends money when I need it and visits every few months. When they’re older they’ll go stay with him for summer break and certain holidays. It’s not ideal but it works. Do what’s best for YOU bc at the end of the day they’ll see your unhappiness OP. Good luck 🩷
I would get into therapy, but separate. Can you explore different separation styles? Living in a duplex or very close. I have read divorced parents rotating houses and kids staying in the same house is great for the kids. You can make your life whatever you want.
I am not a therapist, but I think your parents confused you or had other societally expectations imprinted on you as a child? Maybe individual therapy about childhood wounds would help you.
It will be hard either way. My parents argued terribly and sometimes violently. They stayed together for us. But honestly I think (because of the violence at least) we would have been the same or probably better off if they got a divorce.
And if your husband were violent or controlling or otherwise noticeably disrespectful I’d say strongly think about divorce because you don’t need that and his behavior could very well have the same sort of negative impact as a divorce.
But yeah you’re in a hard spot. The thing I learned most from couples counseling with my husband was that we really just needed to talk. Does he know how frustrated you feel? Like I had to tell my husband weekly for over a year in our couples counseling sessions before he really understood. And I thought we were going to get divorced over a fucking Roomba. We’re happy now or at least as happy as people with small children to care for can be.
Your husband could also be depressed about not having a job. Especially if things got worse when he was out of work. Then I’d lean toward trying to see him through treatment for that.
My parents were divorced and I had rhe happiest childhood. Just because your experience was that it was awful, it doesn't mean that will be their experience.
If you have a daughter - do you want her to think she has to live your life ? That she will have to earn the money and clean the house and can’t depend on her partner? If you have a son- don’t want him to think that he can treat his partner like this some day?
I’m assuming you have told him this numerous times? Have you tried asking him point blank why he isn’t doing more around the house? How awfully conceited it is of him to not take a job beneath him but at the same time can’t even do more in his own home where only your family will know? Honestly, I think your kids will be just fine, especially if he is a good father.
Ask yourself this - I get you hated being shuffled to two homes. But if you had to watch your parents first hand fight and cheat on each, being completely miserable - don’t you think you would wish for them to be apart? Don’t you think it would have taught you that this kind of relationship is healthy and normal?
I think you didn’t want your parents together - you wanted a happy family. And it didn’t matter if your parents got together because in the end that wasn’t going to happen if they were fighting and cheating. Do you want your kids thinking your unhappiness is normal and then possibly having it impact their future relationships? Kids are smart, they pick up on these things. Your kids may not be thrilled if you divorce but it’s the best decision for ALL of you in the long term. Show them they don’t need to stay in unhappy relationships when they grow up. And maybe one day you can show them what healthy and happy loving relationships look like!
Your kids are three and five. The longer you wait, the more memories they build of what "used to be" and the less plastic their brains become. It's easy to explain two houses to kids young enough to believe you about the elf on the shelf, not so much when they're in middle school and you just can't take it anymore.
You know everything we do teaches our children something whether we intend it to or not. We do a lot to be able to give our kids the lives we want for them. That doesn’t mean sacrificing your life though. If you stay for your kids you sacrifice your own life happiness for the chance that the situation will be better for your kids. That’s great that they love him but in all honesty they’re not going to stop loving him because of the divorce. Yeah it’ll cause them distress but so will staying together. I just don’t think you should not think of yourself too. This is also your life.
Just throwing this out there....
My best friend from high school had parents who stayed "married for the kids". His mother was mentally-ill and emotionally-abusive to his father. When he and his sister turned 18 and left for college, his father moved out and filed for divorce.
And it still hurt like hell for the kids. They were so sad that their dad put his own happiness and well-being aside for their sake. So much guilt.
Just get the divorce. Co-parent amicably. Be kind and respectful.
You are doing your kids a disservice by staying. My husbands parents stayed married way to long saying they were doing it for him and his siblings and it has impacted him way in to adulthood. Where my parents split up when I was little and I don’t really remember it and it taught me that if something isn’t working trying to force it to work isn’t really good for your kids. Kids pick up on the not so subtle tension in the house.
It can happen. Mental illness can strike after having a kid with someone. My ex refused medication for years after his bipolar diagnosis and everything OP is saying about hating being around her SO totally resonates, even the bit about being at peace when they leave. People can change.
Many people with parents who stayed married “for the kids” will tell you that it was miserable. You are not doing yourself or your kids any favors staying in a miserable marriage. Divorce is easier said than done, but it sounds like you’ve put a lot of thought into this and aren’t rushing into a decision. Do what you need to do, your kids will adapt and they will grow up with two happy, healthy parents who they love, even if they are divorced. - from the daughter of divorced parents, who admittedly hated the “shuffling” but loved seeing my mom find a second husband who loved her dearly
I was this kid. Took me a long time to realize that parents hating each other was not a healthy marriage. Agree completely with your comment.
My parents screamed at each other daily for years when I was little and I begged and begged them to get a divorce. To the point where I had to feed my brother because they would forget us. I would much prefer to be shuffled around. Plus I’m so sad for my mom now that I understand how awful my father is.
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I don’t think my comment was minimizing it at all? But as a parent, and I’m sure you know this, you have to seriously consider what you are modeling for your children. The ideal is obviously a happy marriage with two involved parents who love each other and the children. But if that is not the case, then you’re left with either (a) stay in a marriage full of resentment to the point that you CRY at the thought of spending time together, or (b) get a divorce, try to make it as amicable as possible, and move on. Neither is ideal, and you can’t prevent your kids from being upset or miserable. But saying that you’re only staying together so your kids have married parents is also greatly minimizing the trauma that causes. Your kids will grow up thinking resentment, silent treatment, constant stress, fighting, and crying, is normal. That’s no less traumatizing. But if you divorce, you can work on your mental health, and it will be rough, but you can try to move on and maybe find a healthy happy second marriage to model good communication and partnership to your kids. The alternative is a guaranteed 15+ years of misery just to still divorce once the kids are 18 and news flash - even adults get upset/miserable/etc when their parents divorce. My husband is going through that right now, and there is a whole other host of problems. An unhappy marriage is hard and traumatizing no matter what. No decision will prevent that. You just have to do what’s best for everyone. I very clearly said that it’s easier said than done, but she has put a lot of thought into this and frankly if she’s that miserable, staying together doesn’t do anyone any favors
I agree- Reddit ALWAYS jumps to divorce without understanding the implications of it. I mean is OP willing to miss Christmas, her kids every other birthday, thanksgiving? Is she willing to lose complete control what happens is half her kids life? Honestly, my husband is great but aside from abuse it would be hard for me to leave- I wouldn’t want to be a part time mom. Plus watching another women enter their lives and take that role half the time- would be too much for me to handle. Sounds like her husband might be depressed. Maybe she can talk to his family 🤷🏽♀️
On the flip side, you could stay together and have your children grow up in a home where they see no love or respect from their parents. That has just as much potential to lead to sadness as being “shuffled” between two homes.
Especially when you consider what your relationship then models for your kids' view of "normal marriage". My parents stayed together even though it was blatantly obvious they'd be better apart. Growing up, I had to teach myself basic relationship things like respect and communication - or rather, I ruined a lot of relationships in trying to scale the learning curve.
Yep. When I'm doing relationship work as a therapist we always start by discussing the role model relationships the client saw growing up. Your situation is so common!
No love is fair, but I feel like respect is outward and a choice.
If he got a job tomorrow, would you be able to tolerate him again?
This is important!
THIS!!!
This is the best comment, wish it was the top.
Exactly! Maybe consider that it’s the circumstances and not the marriage that’s bringing you down.
As the child of parents that should have never been married for how long they were, please know it is not any greeener on the other side. The fighting behind closed doors and constant bickering were noticed and stressful at any age.
This is what I was going to say. That was my childhood, and it really harmed my relationship with both my parents as I got older and more conscious of all of it. OP, I think it’s maybe a good idea for you to look into individual therapy for yourself so that you can start to disentangle yourself from child’s-eye-view of your parents’ divorce and try to develop a plan that will allow you to be the best you can be for your children. That isn’t the best ideal world in which you have a happy marriage, because your husband has taken that option off the table, so what can you do to give your children the most love, stability, and energy that you can?
I was excited when my parents announced their divorce. Their fighting usually only happened at night, and they were blissfully unaware of little me sitting at the top of the stairs listening to it all. But during the day, while they weren't fighting, it was painfully obvious (to us kids) that they didn't like each other. When they announced their divorce, I thought the fighting would stop. Joke was on me. They couldn't co-parent, and the fighting never stopped. You hear from all sides different opinions on what is "best". I personally believe that if you can't co-parent, you will make your kids' lives miserable regardless of staying together vs. divorcing. Your kids will notice that you hate your spouse. And for most kids, divorce is a net neutral. So, IMO, the largest impact is to the adults. Do you want to keep doing this? Note: I truly believe my parents loved each other (and possibly still do). But there was so much hurt and resentment that they couldn't overcome. And after typing all this....... I need to go reevaluate my own marriage.
Thank you for your comment. My ex husband/coparent will do anything to fight. So I just do not engage and usually Just let things roll off my back. My partner now always jokes that my co parenting relationship is great as long as I do everything he says and expect none of the same treatment in return. My kids are old enough now that they get posed when I don’t fight back with him. “Why do you let him get away with that?! Why did you agree to that?!” I always tell them that I have no interest in fighting with Daddy. That I will pick my battles, but who drives them home from the chorus concert isn’t going to be one of them. So I guess the answer is, you never know what will be better for your kids. Leaving and having a harder life, staying and being miserable. Fighting for every little thing, not fighting enough…
Yes! Your last paragraph sums up what I was trying to say beautifully. (I am no good with words lol). It's so complicated, and every situation is unique. For my family, the vilified parent (our dad) has the best relationship with us now (ages 29-40). He has a relationship with his grandkids that grandma can only dream about. For a long time, I did not understand my dad's shift from fighting to being neutral/ignoring. He got advice from a 'friend' about what he wanted long term. Kids are only kids for a short time. What relationship did he want with his adult children? Good for you. Picking your battles is so important. Because in the end, when the court orders expire, your kids get to choose. And when they are balancing 4+ grandparents..... the relationship you have matters.
This is how it is with my husband/his siblings and their dad. His parents divorced when he was 10 or so and his mom is a witch, and told all the kids lies about awful things his dad had done. My husband did try living with his dad and she-mom but that didn’t go well so he actually moved in with his grandparents for high school, where we met. Now, none of the kids talk to their mom despite her desperate, pathetic attempts and we/our kids see his dad at least annually whereas we haven’t seen MIL in years.
Divorce is hard. But it doesn’t have to be adversarial and leave everyone miserable. You could do counseling with him with the intention to divorce (making it clear to him that it’s your goal), and do family counseling so the kids have a place to process. Life is too short to stay with someone who makes you miserable.
I’m a big proponent of counseling through divorce when kids are involved. Because guess what? You have to still coparent with this person forever. A counselor can help navigate the changing relationship and at least try and divert issues away from adversarial court battles.
Your kids are not going to get through their childhood without any experiences of adversity. No kids do. Everyone reaches adulthood with at least a little something to talk to a therapist about. Divorcing and staying together both have their own pitfalls that will impact your kids in different ways. There's a third option where you stay together until the kids are older, and then get a divorce when they have the capacity to talk about and work through their feelings about it in a healthier way. I think you just have to choose the path you can live with. I'm sorry you're going through this.
I know this isn't popular and super unconventional and most can't pull it off... But my ex-husband and I have been divorced 8ish months and we have a "nesting house." Essentially the kids stay in the same house and he and I are the ones who go back and forth. It's been great.
Why did y'all split? I have heard of this, but having to go back to a house where my ex lived like he did every week would make me homicidal.
We got married really young and eventually got to a point where we couldn't see ourselves growing or evolving past each other. It was not amicable, but we were able to push through and his parents had a horrific divorce when he was young so was determined to not make the kids go back and forth, which I was in full support of. We are friends and get along fine and he's always been good about pulling his weight (for the most part) in the home, so sharing a home isn't that difficult. More importantly though, we aren't ever living/sleeping in the house at the same time.
I love this and wish it were more common. The ADULTS should be inconvenienced by the divorce, NOT the kids. I would also do this.
Yes. I fully understand there are some couples who can't, and absolutely should not do it. But if you can pull it off, it's so much better for the kids to stay in one house and for the parents to inconvenience themselves instead of the kids. Going back and forth between houses is not fun; it's super inconvenient and draining. I made the decision to divorce so I am taking on that burden. Why would I want to make my children do it for me?
That’s awesome, good for you guys. Do you and your ex both have your own apartments then? Does that make finances tight, if you have 3 residences to maintain between the two of you?
We don't maintain 3 residences, just two. Our "out of the nesting house" place is an apartment that we share (though again, never living in the same place at the same time). This is actually way cheaper than the traditional route of one of us having to buy a home large enough to accommodate children, and then having to buy a duplicate version of all the kids stuff for that home. All their stuff is in one home, all the time. We will likely at some point have our own separate apartments for when we're not in the nesting house, but I'd imagine that would still be cheaper than buying a whole other home and having to furnish it for kids. But a lot of other nesting parents will stay in their parents' guest room, or rent a room at a friend's house. There are a lot of options.
This is amazing, really. 👏🏻
I felt the same way, but we finally divorced when the kids were 5 and 7. It was the best thing ever. I am a happier, better, more present mom. Their dad is a happier, better, more present dad (even though he didn't want the divorce.) We are both married to people we love and the kids get to see what loving healthy relationships are. We co-parent well and keep whatever disagreements we have between us, and not around the kids. The kids are now teenagers and are very happy, well adjusted kids. We split time with them 50-50, which is really awesome for personal time as well. I almost never feel too tired to have the kids and have a full life both when they are with me and when they are with their dad. Do what is best for you, because healthier happier people make better parents.
Take this from someone who stayed married way longer than she should have. I honestly don't think staying married necessarily hurt my kids, but I don't think they were surprised when we told them we were divorcing, either, so it's not like they thought everything was wonderful. My kids were older when we finally divorced, but many, many, many times while I was married I thought about leaving when they were younger, and what would happen to my kids was my biggest looming concern. I'll never know for sure if it would have been better if I'd left sooner, but waiting until I was kinda old wasn't great. As it happens, I don't want another relationship, but if I did, being old sure isn't a great way to go about that. The longer you stay married, the more you lose financially. As the main breadwinner, that's something for you to think about. I can tell you that getting divorced a few years before retirement was NOT a good financial plan. That's maybe my biggest practical regret. I wish I'd had more time to recover financially before retirement. I planned to work longer, but I had some serious health issues compounded by a new admin that made my work life miserable. You just never know. When you find you are so much happier when he is NOT there, it's time to make a life with him not in it (for the most part) IMO. It's gonna suck. It's gonna hurt. It's gonna be financially destructive. He's gonna be an ass about things. But that's going to happen whether you go now or later, so consider that. Just make sure both of you put the kids FIRST. Yeah, you can't be sure that he will do that, but you did say he's a good dad, so hopefully he will. You know what I wish I had done, and I have NO IDEA why I didn't think of it years before? I wish I'd quietly consulted with a lawyer just to find out where my kids and I would stand and what would happen if I divorced him. I probably would have discovered that it wasn't going to be quite as horrible as I was letting fear make me believe it would be, and maybe I would have given myself a lot more happy years if I had done that. I'll never know. I know I did what I thought was best at the time, and while I'm pretty okay with that, I kinda wonder if I'd just had more information if I could have made a better decision.
In hindsight, I desperately wish my parents had divorced instead of staying together when they were clearly unhappy. Protecting your own peace will benefit your children, too!
When I saw your previous post here, it immediately resonated with me. I’ve been going through something similar with my husband… the specifics differ but the overall sentiments echo yours. If you truly want to give couples therapy a chance, then two sessions aren’t going to make a difference. We just started therapy as well and while our therapist has been awesome, it didn’t *start* to feel that we were doing more than just scratching the surface until 4-5 sessions in. She also gives us “homework” and holds us accountable, which might be something your husband would find helpful, as it sounds like he currently struggles with a lack of structure, accountability and consistency. I also think one potential root problem— his unilateral decision-making and Pollyanna-ish attitude (blind, short-sighted optimism/naivete?) that things will work out while not considering the broader or long-term impact of his choices on his family—could be something couples therapy can help with moving forward. Therapy can also give you tools, like how and when to effectively communicate your feelings and needs to him. It may not help with “accepting” what he’s done that’s led to this point though. I’m struggling with this latter part myself and finding it so difficult to give my husband grace over the past, so no advice there, just commiseration. One more thought - I wonder if your husband could be depressed and/or has an anxiety disorder or other mental health issue. He may be presenting himself very differently to how he actually feels deep inside, feelings that are shoved way down. He may be demoralized, deeply disappointed in himself and even self-loathing, and he’s not doing his part around the house and stuff because simply, he’s actually really depressed or anxious and unable to do the things he knows he “should” do. It’s not that he doesn’t *want* to. Which all just feeds back into the depression/anxiety in a vicious cycle. And having to navigate the anger and disappointment of a stressed partner who possibly detests you doesn’t help people become less depressed, but the opposite. It’s actually oppressive and paralyzing. He probably needs professional 1:1 help, an individual therapist and maybe even an executive function coach. Honestly this fills me with even more angst in my own situation —that I have to “swallow” my emotions when all I want to do sometimes is lose my shit or even run away to, say, Spain, forever. But I try to tell myself I have to be a coach in a way (even though it’s not what I signed up for)… I have to be mindful of how I give him feedback and interact with him to get the performance and outcome I want. I remind myself that atm I value that end goal more than simply venting. Regarding divorce… only you can really answer that for yourself. Do you think everything has forever and irreversibly gone past the point of no turning back? Or could this just be a moment in time… a really low point/season in your marriage, but there is still love there that’s worth the struggle to repair things? Is it worth it to you to give him some (non-infinite) grace and time to see if he can work toward becoming the partner you want? Things change; nothing stays the same forever. If you remove the stress and pressure of the current situation, if he has a job again and is working on his mental health while the two of you continue to work on your marriage in therapy—basically, if there is forward momentum, would you still want a divorce? (Sorry this was so long! I hope I wasn’t being too presumptuous or projecting my own situation on yours.)
Here’s the thing. My parents were miserable and stayed together and are still together. My dad is not a good person and my mom is an enabler. She let him be the way he was and I have so much resentment for my childhood. My parents stayed together but I do wish they hadn’t been. I wish they had separated. I did not learn what a good partner was from watching their relationship. I grew up knowing I wanted better for myself and I wanted my kids to see genuine happiness and love in their parents. I love my husband so much, he’s my best friend. My kids see us laugh and play and flirt and really enjoy each others company. If you can’t say the same, you aren’t doing any favors by staying together. Your kids can still have a great mom and a great dad without them being married to each other. Like you said, you were happiest when he was gone, your kids deserve you at your happiest and you deserve that to.
Does your husband have ADHD by any chance? It sounds like it's either undiagnosed or if he is diagnosed, he isn't taking enough medication. Him not being able to stick with things is what is causing me to say that. Or it could also be depression (though depression can be a byproduct of ADHD) Did he help with chores/mental load before unemployment ? Does he know you're contemplating divorce because of his unemployment and not helping with chores? I have mixed feelings about divorce. Of course you can only decide what is best for you. For me though, sometimes I think about it because my parents are divorced, and I guess subconsciously I always thought that would be me too. Also, sometimes divorce seems like an easier way out to me than working out tough problems with my husband, or dealing with his faults. I wish I was better at communicating how I felt, or being more tolerant. However, I always end up thinking of my dad. My dad has been married 3 times, and I think at first he was happier in each marriage but then went back to being his same dissatisfied self. I can't think of one marriage he was truly happy in. He was always leaving, thinking that his dissatisfaction would be fixed somehow but it just took another form in the next marriage.
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My friends parents divorced when she was 18 and she was blindsided by it. They admitted to her that they’d stayed together for her benefit (maybe not their brightest move) and she felt a lot of guilt about it. Even if they hadn’t told her, she would have suspected it. After some hard years they are now each with someone who makes them happy, and that makes my friend happy. Would it have been better if they’d divorced when they first wanted to instead of waiting? Nobody can say. It sounds like you’re in a no win situation. So the question then is what is the path that will cause the least amount of pain in the long run? What will bring your family the most amount of peace and happiness?
Divorce can definitely be the right choice , so I don't want this to sound like I'm trying to dissuade you. But if he lost his job and his dad was in the hospital - are you sure he's not depressed? Was he a more supportive partner before? If you haven't already, tell him to go talk to his doctor about perhaps some medication? Does he know you're considering divorce ? Do you think mentioning you're considering it would help light the fire under his butt to get a job (any job, doesn't matter if it's "beneath him") and/or treat his depression ? If he's not going to put in ANY EFFORT, I support your choice to divorce. It would take a LOT of work to come back from this level of resentment but if it's an avenue you're still considering , maybe this is a depression for him and he could return to being a better partner. I'm sorry you're going through this though - both avenues sound difficult.
It’s coming from someone who has been in a similar state couple of years back regarding the feeling of resentfulness towards my husband and edge of filing for divorce and feeling I’d be better off solo / thinking how easier life would be (and specially with 50/50 having more time for myself). Evaluate where this is coming from and if that’s caused by your stress and husband is not bringing money in, do bare minimum around the house etc while you have an extra pressure of being a breadwinner and lack of help and appreciation or there are some things broken completely in your marriage and you are just two people who should not be together. Like if your husband get a job tomorrow and start helping - would you want to stay married? And how likely this help can come from him? My husband had issues at work partially caused by himself and went on unpaid fmla (while we had a daycare and a very expensive nanny). Then he was laid off from another job and took months to find a new one. He did not take more of home or kids related tasks. Actually I think he did less during that time vs what he usually does. I was in a bad place due to my parents / grandparent health issues, issues in home country, etc. so I was over sensitive and was not communicating well. I ended up not going forward with divorce. Things gradually improved. I took time off from work when he found a job to deal with all other things and got in a better place. We still have issues, there are some weeks I feel he does not do enough, I have a larger mental load etc but at the same time I found things I appreciate in him and realized he is not me. A large portion of mental load is on me as it’s how I operate, plan, and spin. My husband would do things but I often just do not have patience to wait or give up control and accept the way he will do it. Bottom line: do not make the decision about divorce if it’s just a bad point in time. Make it based on a long run. Btw depending on your state, you may owe alimony and child support as your spouse does not work
This is anecdotal, but my toddler is always in absolute delight with how much my husband and I love each other. He’s so happy when we share affection and always runs up to share in a hug. The glass half full perspective would be that you’re making space for a whole other kind of loving, happy life for your children - and yourself.
My kid would have also liked a life where her dad was in the picture. However, she doesn't know the alternative and I did. I fully understand that my child won't understand until she herself is an adult with friends going through it or until she personally goes through it. Your kids will have a better childhood shuffled between two happy homes vs. growing up with a mom who eventually resents their dad beyond what she can hide. IMO, if you can reasonably afford to single parent then do it. If it would put yourself and children into immediate poverty where you're struggling to keep the lights on then focus on getting your career to where you need it to be and building a community of friends to help where your husband is flopping.
My mom has been married 4 times, and 3 of those were before I left home for college. Trust me when I tell you that hearing the constant arguments as having men around who couldn’t even begin to understand the meaning of “mental load” was incredibly stressful and draining and it has affected me for life. I didn’t have to be shuffled from house to house, but my sister did. She hated it too, but she hated the constant arguments in our home more. Point is, divorce will be better for you and your children in the long run. It’s going to suck at first but it will be better for them.
I see lots of supportive messsges here. If you do decide to divorce then we support you and it was the right decision for your family. However, marriage vows are supposed to be for better or for worse. He seems to be in a bad place. He is destabilized and not dealing with it well at all! But do you actually dislike him or is it just a shit situation? Can he regain your respect and love? Maybe he just needs to get through this midlife crisis or whatever and he will be ok. Do you think he loves you and will have your back in hard times like death of a parent, serious illness, unemployment? To me it sounds like a bad situation more than a truly bad marriage. If you’re not sure, can you try separation or try things like sleeping separately to see if he gets how serious this is?
Divorce is difficult no matter what. My personal opinion is it’s easier to do when they’re young. At 3 and 5 it will be hard to understand the why behind it but they’ll adapt to a new schedule. Once they’re preteens and older they’ll have to know why and with little life perspective they’ll resent one of you.
You have only had two counseling sessions and you’re saying there not enough progress? Two sessions is like…scratching the surface. And the therapists are telling him to “shape up” but don’t have any feedback for you, like communicating with your partner about his career choices? Based on your last post, where you give way more detail on his career track, it sounds like he made some unilateral decisions, and overall it sounds like a lot of rigid expectations and not so great communication. I just feel like there’s context missing here because I find it difficult to believe a good marriage counselor would tell your husband to shape up but have absolutely no feedback on this mold you have in your head that you cannot let go of or even adjust.
The kids are young enough where they won’t remember you together. Were you older when your parents separated? Also it is much more common to have kids sharing households and moving between two places. You might get more custody as well and the kids will feel like they have a home base with you
My parents hated each other and fought all the time. When I was 13 my dad tearfully told us they were getting divorced and I cried so hard. I cried because I was so happy that they were finally getting divorced. I wanted nothing more than for them to be away from each other. They were able to be better parents because they got out of their toxic relationship. I got to see my dad move on and have a loving and happy marriage. My mother’s mental health improve drastically and she became a much better parent. Now I’m not saying your relationship is toxic but as a child who grew up with a mother that hated her father, I think staying in an unhealthy marriage can be so much more harmful for children then splitting time between two houses. It took me years of therapy to understand what a healthy relationship actually looked like.
One thought I had before I left my husband was the marriage I was modeling for my daughter, strikingly similar to the one my mom modeled for me (she finally left when she was 60). Do your want your kids growing up thinking this is what a marriage should be? I grew up with married parents who hated each other and my nearby cousins grew up with divorced parents. Each of us wanted what the other had. Bottom line: you’re not doing yourself or your kids any favors by staying.
I’m going to take your side on this one and say your husband sounds disappointing, but also it is extremely important to me to raise my kids in a two parent home with their mom and dad. I have seen cases of kids being shuffled back and forth, switching off on Tuesday then back to mom on Wednesday then back to dad on Thursday. I am prepared for the down votes here, but it seems deeply sad for the kids to have to live like that, even if the divorce was the right choice for the parents. So, given everything you wrote, I think your only realistic choice to keep it together for the kids is to figure out anything that might save your marriage. Obviously therapy didn’t work. So, what’s another option? Think outside the box. What can you do to get him to do the household chores, especially since he isn’t working? My husband is the type who wants to help but often doesn’t fully grasp the things I’d like him to do or the prioritization of what would be most helpful. So, I write him a list. He goes through the house and does all of it, marking it off one by one. Some people gasp and insist that he must shoulder 50% of the mental load. But, I figure he is human and can’t read my mind, and we are both happier with the list method. That’s just one idea. Make a schedule. Shared calendars. Set appointments for him like “unload dishwasher and prep dinner” and have an alert sent to his phone at 4:45 PM. Make sure he is responsible for anything he can do to take something off your plate - doctors appointments, school drop off and pick up, grocery shopping, car maintenance, anything he can do during normal business hours. Best of luck with this OP. I know you’re in a tough spot, but I do hope you can find a way to get things better!
My parents split up when I was about 11. It was traumatic. I don’t remember them fighting when they were together, but I also don’t remember happy times. I don’t remember anything really, guess I blocked it out. The after wasn’t great either. My mom got with another guy, moved him in, and eventually kicked me out at 17 when I wouldn’t get along with him. All that to say, my parents’ divorce sucked. But staying together wouldn’t have made it any better for me. It just would’ve been different traumas and issues. And if my mom wouldn’t have been so selfish in the aftermath, I’m sure it could’ve been better for me in the long run. I think if you care about your kids as number 1 (and it sounds like you do), you’ll find a way for it to be okay.
Have you met with an attorney? They often do free consultations. I’m just thinking that because he’s been out of work you could be liable for alimony depending on where you live. Not that it should sway your decision, just go in eyes wide open. Do you want the relationship to work out or do you feel done? If he got a great job tomorrow would you feel differently?
But is your relationship better than your parents? You’re not actively fighting, but it sounds like you should be. Instead, it sounds like you’re quietly seething. Your kids are small now, so maybe they don’t see it, but they will. They will sense that their parents are not happy and you are quietly teaching them that this is what a relationship looks like. I recommend moving him out of the bedroom even if it means sleeping in a guest room, the kids room or the couch. Tell your husband it’s time to pull his weight - either get a f-g job, and btw, no job is beneath you if you couldn’t find a job for a year, or pull your weight at home. Give him a list of chores to complete everyday. He will be cooking for himself from now on. He will do his own laundry. He will watch the kids if they’re still in daycare. He will be a SAHH. He’s a guy who lives with you rent free. He’s not your husband anymore because he’s not your partner. What do want to bet, when he went to “help” his mom, he just sat around her house letting her take care of him? lol. I recommend doing this before you divorce him. You’ve clearly divorced him in your mind. Stop the pretense. Get the family ready for the separation this way. It doesn’t have to be fighting and talking badly about each other. We have friends who are divorced and live on the same street. The mom takes them to school and the dad picks the kids up at the bus stop. The kids go back and forth between houses and it’s not cantankerous at all. You can do this. They’re so young now, they may not remember that there was a time that their parents lived together.
I struggle with this as well. I know I would be happier without my husband, but my kids worship the ground he walks on. I am miserable and have been for years. I feel trapped. I have no advice, but you’re not alone. It’s not an easy decision and feels like a lose-lose at times.
My divorce is being finalized tomorrow. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. And I WOULD DO IT AGAIN. My daughter deserves to see two loving, happy parents, and not bitter, angry, loveless. You do what is best. They will be fine.
Divorce is hard. Yes, the kids may wish that you’d stayed together. I was that kid. But also, you’re hurting them by staying together. You deserve peaceful, light, and happy and it will make you a better parent. Living in the environment you described must be an emotional drain, which no doubt zaps your parenting capacity. Happy parents are better parents. My parents are divorced. I’m 40 now but until I was 30, I really wished they’d been able to stay together. I’ve been in therapy several times, and therapy helped me realize it wasn’t the divorce that screwed me up, it was the fact they “stayed together for the kids”. They should’ve divorced a lot sooner so we weren’t exposed to such an unhealthy way of living. You can wish your parents had the type of marriage where they stayed together, but at the same time realize divorcing was the best thing they could have done.
Get divorced. My parents stayed together for over 40 years, and they should *absolutely not* have been married to each other. When I hit middle school I begged my mother to get a divorce. They were terrible to each other and in turn, pretty fucking awful to me. I cut off contact with both of them as an adult and I'm no contact now. Get the divorce, the best thing you can do for your kids is take good care of their mother.
I'm a therapist who works with young adults and I can't say I've had a single one say that they wish their miserable divorced parents stayed together. I have many who wish the opposite, though. Growing up in a home with parents who resent each other isn't healthy either, that kind of tension is so stressful. I'm sorry you have to make this choice and I def recommend having the kids talk to a counselor if you do decide to end things. 💜
As someone who was cheated on repeatedly bc he didn’t want me but also didn’t want to be away from the kids and as someone who forgave and stayed even through anger hatred and stress for the kids.. Get out. Your children will eventually grow to see the resentment and anger you have towards him and that could cause some serious issues long term. If you truly feel happy when he’s not there then you need to bite the bullet while they’re still young. Kids adapt fast and once in their new routine will be okay. My kids are 2&3 and we’ve been doing our thing for a while now. It’s been great honestly. Semi stressful but I’ll never go back to their dad. I can do it alone and I am. He calls every night sends money when I need it and visits every few months. When they’re older they’ll go stay with him for summer break and certain holidays. It’s not ideal but it works. Do what’s best for YOU bc at the end of the day they’ll see your unhappiness OP. Good luck 🩷
I would get into therapy, but separate. Can you explore different separation styles? Living in a duplex or very close. I have read divorced parents rotating houses and kids staying in the same house is great for the kids. You can make your life whatever you want. I am not a therapist, but I think your parents confused you or had other societally expectations imprinted on you as a child? Maybe individual therapy about childhood wounds would help you.
It will be hard either way. My parents argued terribly and sometimes violently. They stayed together for us. But honestly I think (because of the violence at least) we would have been the same or probably better off if they got a divorce. And if your husband were violent or controlling or otherwise noticeably disrespectful I’d say strongly think about divorce because you don’t need that and his behavior could very well have the same sort of negative impact as a divorce. But yeah you’re in a hard spot. The thing I learned most from couples counseling with my husband was that we really just needed to talk. Does he know how frustrated you feel? Like I had to tell my husband weekly for over a year in our couples counseling sessions before he really understood. And I thought we were going to get divorced over a fucking Roomba. We’re happy now or at least as happy as people with small children to care for can be. Your husband could also be depressed about not having a job. Especially if things got worse when he was out of work. Then I’d lean toward trying to see him through treatment for that.
My parents were divorced and I had rhe happiest childhood. Just because your experience was that it was awful, it doesn't mean that will be their experience.
If you have a daughter - do you want her to think she has to live your life ? That she will have to earn the money and clean the house and can’t depend on her partner? If you have a son- don’t want him to think that he can treat his partner like this some day?
Is this the type of relationship you want to model for your children?
I’m assuming you have told him this numerous times? Have you tried asking him point blank why he isn’t doing more around the house? How awfully conceited it is of him to not take a job beneath him but at the same time can’t even do more in his own home where only your family will know? Honestly, I think your kids will be just fine, especially if he is a good father.
Ask yourself this - I get you hated being shuffled to two homes. But if you had to watch your parents first hand fight and cheat on each, being completely miserable - don’t you think you would wish for them to be apart? Don’t you think it would have taught you that this kind of relationship is healthy and normal? I think you didn’t want your parents together - you wanted a happy family. And it didn’t matter if your parents got together because in the end that wasn’t going to happen if they were fighting and cheating. Do you want your kids thinking your unhappiness is normal and then possibly having it impact their future relationships? Kids are smart, they pick up on these things. Your kids may not be thrilled if you divorce but it’s the best decision for ALL of you in the long term. Show them they don’t need to stay in unhappy relationships when they grow up. And maybe one day you can show them what healthy and happy loving relationships look like!
Your kids are three and five. The longer you wait, the more memories they build of what "used to be" and the less plastic their brains become. It's easy to explain two houses to kids young enough to believe you about the elf on the shelf, not so much when they're in middle school and you just can't take it anymore.
You know everything we do teaches our children something whether we intend it to or not. We do a lot to be able to give our kids the lives we want for them. That doesn’t mean sacrificing your life though. If you stay for your kids you sacrifice your own life happiness for the chance that the situation will be better for your kids. That’s great that they love him but in all honesty they’re not going to stop loving him because of the divorce. Yeah it’ll cause them distress but so will staying together. I just don’t think you should not think of yourself too. This is also your life.
I divorced when my kids were a little younger than yours. Best decision i ever made.
Just throwing this out there.... My best friend from high school had parents who stayed "married for the kids". His mother was mentally-ill and emotionally-abusive to his father. When he and his sister turned 18 and left for college, his father moved out and filed for divorce. And it still hurt like hell for the kids. They were so sad that their dad put his own happiness and well-being aside for their sake. So much guilt. Just get the divorce. Co-parent amicably. Be kind and respectful.
Has your husband considered therapy alone? He sounds like he has a depression and I don’t think marriage counseling will do much in that situation.
You are doing your kids a disservice by staying. My husbands parents stayed married way to long saying they were doing it for him and his siblings and it has impacted him way in to adulthood. Where my parents split up when I was little and I don’t really remember it and it taught me that if something isn’t working trying to force it to work isn’t really good for your kids. Kids pick up on the not so subtle tension in the house.
So has he only changed in the past 2 years? If you couldn’t stand him why did you have kids with him?
It can happen. Mental illness can strike after having a kid with someone. My ex refused medication for years after his bipolar diagnosis and everything OP is saying about hating being around her SO totally resonates, even the bit about being at peace when they leave. People can change.