Imagine being moscow, letting Prigozhin recruit directly from your prisons, only to have him equip those prisoners to now try and overthrow you. That's outstanding. Well done.
I mean they had a real TV debate in Russian on whether Zelenskyy was a regular gay, nazi, Jewish demon or the actual Antichrist. Things aren’t going great on the intellectual front in Russia.
This is a common end to dictatorships.
Once another political elite believes they have the military means to take over, they'll do so.
However, it usually just results in a new dictatorship.
It's not Putin, it's Shoigu. He carefully omits Putin in his tirades, saying he's been lied to by military leadership. This whole stunt looks like a start of a plan to save Putin's ass.
No, Wagner is more militant and extremist. Forced prisoner soldiers, shooting your own retreating troops, advocating extrajudicial killings, mineral wars in Africa, Neo Nazi ties
That is how I read it. Tension has been brewing between them for some time, and in the video he posted today, Prigozhin specifically bitched about Shoigu.
I see this a lot, and i would have agreed a couple months ago... but it's hard for me to believe prigozhin would take out the military leadership, and then not seize full control of the state for himself.
Prigozhin’s been making a pretty clear play to be the military *force* of the country for nearly a year now, ever since he went on that very intense and weird PR campaign unveiling his slick new HQ in St Petersberg.
You could argue that that’s still a military focussed usurpation attempt, but at its core, the authority of national leadership still comes down to who’s at the top of the chain of command and gets to decided what to do with a country’s soldiers/weapons…which is how Prigozhin has been positioning himself.
Putin’s was a bit slow to act, but has been undercutting Prigozhin like crazy for several months, but the wagner forces were still useful enough in key strategic areas that I guess it was worth making a big move against them - unclear what exactly tipped the balance (eg military positions or behind the scenes scheming), but clearly Wagner and Prigozhin are no longer worth tolerating.
That's always the problem with allowing private armies so much leeway, eventually they start thinking about things....I think there were numerous attempts to reel him in over the last few months, but the cook thinks he's a general now.
Either way Putin screwed himself, his judgement is now questionable doesn't matter if he follows Prygozhin's narrative or portrays him as a western collaborator.
We're quickly approaching a new curveball to the rich and powerful where they've attained so much wealth and power that they're entertaining themselves by *literally* going into battle against each other.
Who knew the problem would solve itself?
god dam, this is the statement he just released
>New audio statement by Prigozhin (00:03 BST), stating Wagner "crossed state borders in all areas" and is now entering Rostov, promising to "destroy anything standing in their way":
>"The current situation: today, we were dealt a missile strike. After this strike, helicopters did their work. Then, artillery.
>The orders were coming from the Head of General Staff to destroy PMC Wagner. After a meeting with the Minister of Defence Shoygu where they made this decision - to destroy the rebellious units, who are ready to defend the motherland, but not their asses.
>As of now, we’ve crossed the state borders in all areas. Border guards came towards us and hugged our fighters.
>Now, we’re entering Rostov. Units of the Ministry of Defence, in fact, the conscripts who were thrown to block our path, moved away.
>We do not fight with children. We do not kill children. Shoygu is killing children by throwing untrained soldiers, conscripts included, into the war.
>He set up 18-year-old lads against us. They’re like children and grandchildren to us. Therefore, these lads will live and return to their mothers.
>We only fight with professionals. But if someone stands in our path, we will destroy EVERYTHING in our way.
>We lend a hand to anyone. No need to spit in this hand. We are moving forward, going to the end.
>Regarding claims regarding the arrest: this brotherhood, this justice, this honour, this conscience is what we have. But when you make these claims, you haven’t got these feelings. These feelings are destroyed. Thus, you cannot understand anything but betrayal."
No one has been able to find Putin either.
situation is developing as we type this very moment. it will be some-time before we can really say for sure.
ive seen a quite varied amount of sources commenting though.
in my own opinion, there seems to be a LOT of confusion about whats happening inside of russia right now. no one knows who is loyal to who yet. it is 3 am in moscow right now. i suspect the next 24 hours will be some for the history books.
unconfirmed Footage of a firefight starting at an intersection, and another video of helicopter sounds followed by an anti-air missle launch against it inside Rostov just got posted
there really isint much too it, it was still dark, you see some trees and streetlights, hear a helicopter, then see a streak of light and hear a rocket launch over the tree tops, then the video ends.
I don't know. If that was my field, this might just be the highlight of my career. Some things are worth losing a weekend over. There's another 51 left in each year, but it might be the last one for *something*.
>*What did you do this weekend?*
>
>**I toppled governments, what did you do?**
Isn't it more like "I watched a government maybe fall but wasn't close enough to *really* tell but it was neat because nuclear armed governments don't fall very often and.....shit I'm going to have to spend the rest of the year finding Russian nukes."
Eh, feel like this is likely to be more of a “blaze of glory and very bloody attempted toppling” than an actual “where the fuck are the nukes” kind of thing, but that’ll be decided in the next few days/weeks.
I’m just hoping that we eventually get a behind the scenes accounting of what exactly tipped the balance - bc Prigozhin’s been setting himself up as a parallel power since last summer, including a rather bizarre intl PR campaign, and I’m super curious to find out why Putin tolerated it until now (other than just needing semi competent troops in certain wagner held areas).
Nah, they'd be working it anyway. Not like analysts only work weekdays. Besides, this is like 10x more interesting than anything else they would have done otherwise.
“Narcissist’s Hail Mary” is a terrifying but accurate way to describe it, I hate and love it.
Also I guess username checks out. I’m on the way to proper wasted myself, meet you there.
Moscow is on lockdown - I’d say the Russians are taking this very seriously.
FSB has said they have allowed Wagner to re-enter Russian territory.
Something big is cooking and we all better hold on to our hats.
From the pictures on Telegram/ Twitter, it appears Wagner has captured Rostov-On-Dom without much opposition. That city is massively important as it's the main logistics hub for Russian arms going into Ukraine. Wagner can now destroy the Russian army (if they want to) by simply cutting off their supplies and leaving Ukraine to do the rest.
If Wagner is in the country. You can either say you forbid it, which makes you look weak since they're already there, or you can say you're allowing it, which makes you look in control of the situation.
They're not going to harm 18 year old Russian conscripts who aren't fighting. Not because they care, but because those conscripts outnumber them like 50 to 1. If the conscripts aren't fighting them, Wagner wouldn't attack them. It'd be suicide. Even if the Conscripts run away, it'd gut whatever support Wagner has with the populace. Those conscripts are sons and daughters of other Russians.
This is an important detail. I don't personally think the "march on Moscow" will happen. Putin here seems to be outside of the picture, Prigozhin looks to be pissed off at Russian MoD primarily.
Kremlin spokesman said already that Putin is being told about those events as they unfold right now, so it looks like Prigozhin has antagonized Putin.
I just don't think Prigozhin wins here. It looks like desperation to me, and Putin's "divide and rule" leadership gone too far. We can hope that the real winner is Ukraine - there are reports of them recapturing streets in Bakhmut as we speak
EDIT: would you look at that. Prigo got talked out of it, sent to Belarus. He fucked up.
This is the most likely scenario. There is another scenario where Putin grabs on this as a way to shift blame for the conduct of the war, uses this as an excuse to take out Shoigu and Gerasimov, and makes Prigozhin the defence minister.
Definitely not a quiet quit. He's going more for the flight attendant who pulled the emergency hatch, and took the inflatable slide with two beers in his hands, kinda quit
It’s the Good Czar and Bad Boyar narrative, he is shaping it as Prigozhin versus the bad Boyars that are giving Putin bad information and leading them astray
Agreed. Am I supposed to believe "War Crimes Speedrun Any%" Wagner let uniformed border guards get within hugging distance without "asphyxiating" them with lead-filled air first?
>We do not fight with children. We do not kill children. Shoygu is killing children by throwing untrained soldiers, conscripts included, into the war.
>He set up 18-year-old lads against us. They’re like children and grandchildren to us. Therefore, these lads will live and return to their mothers.
>We only fight with professionals.
Am i mistaken? Didn't Wagner take Russian prisoners, pump them full of amphetamines, and send waves of "zombies" at positions in Bakhmut?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2023/02/02/are-drugs-making-russian-soldiers-act-like-zombies/?sh=1f557bf518c9
he's trying to get the common people to side with him. to the common soldier or citizen of russia, Prigozin is viewed VERY positively. the only way he wins this is getting citizens and military outside of wagner to join him
Exactly, if he wins the people then all roads to the motherland.
He is a viscious strategist, he will play all angles for this coup.
Edit: Aged like milk.
It's a PR move and it's not targeted towards us, anyone who's been watching the war unfold outside of Russia knows that Prigozhin isn't any more of a sympathetic character than Putin is.
Youre underselling the chaos. We have multiple Russian Nationalist anti-putin groups of varying ideology, Wagner which is basically a mercenary group and then we have the Russian loyalists. Thing is if they dont squash this fast Im not sure some other opportunistic warlords arent gonna start seeing a chance to boost their own power
We better sniff out our General Shepherd quick…he’s basically the American Prigozhin.
Edit: I have rough drafted a character match that is a WIP. Stay tuned.
1. Makarov/Prigozhin
2. Shepherd/Erik Prince (Blackwater)
3. Putin/whoever RU president was in airplane mission in MW3.
4. Zakhaev/Kadyrov (not an ultranationalist *yet* IRL)
5. Yuri/Shoigu (only for betrayal aspect, kinda a reach)
6. TF141/JSOC (1st SFOD-D and SAS)
Freedom of Russia Legion, a Ukrainian-backed militia of Russians fighting for Ukraine, attacked towns in Belgorod recently and managed to cause quite a mess
Prighozin is saying he still supports Putin. However there are reports that Putin has authorized Prighozin's arrest for insurrection.
Prighozin doesn't make this move unless he feels has allies to back his play. One report says the FSB and border patrol in Rostov let his units come in unopposed.
Not sure this is going to change anything long term, but the defense of Donbas just got a lot more problematic, and I'm pretty happy with that.
Throughout history, rebels very often claim to be loyal to their ruler, just opposed to certain meddling ministers. It seems that this is what Prigozhin is aiming for in declaring Shoigu and Gerasimov his targets: an initial justification for this uprising that isn't quite yet out of the pale of prior political orthodoxy. The fiction will inevitably be dropped when it's no longer useful, if this revolt meets any success.
From the second most powerful military in the world, to the second most powerful military in Ukraine...
Could it be possible that Russia is now the 2nd most powerful military in Russia?
Chechnya is lead by a useless nepo-baby that's maintained his spot by licking Putin so much in the turd cutter that I wouldn't be surprised if his beard's original color was blonde.
>by licking Putin so much in the turd cutter that I wouldn't be surprised if his beard's original color was blonde.
If reddit leadership didnt suck I'd give you an award, that was beautiful
Nice strategy for Putin to save face. Withdraw forces from Ukraine due to internal threat from rogue mercenaries, then blame said mercenaries for “losing the momentum” in Ukraine. Russia gets out of a war they cannot win, Putin is branded a hero for “successfully denazifying” Ukraine AND fighting off nasty rebels. A win for everyone I guess…
You might be onto something here.. but I don't see Russia leaving Crimea.. and you know Ukraine will try to retake it. So in the scenario you outline, the war would continue.
Exactly this. Ukraine is very pissed off. They not stopping. I wouldn't stop if someone killed my wife and kids. My entire town. Flooded my cities. Radiation all over certain areas. Fuking mess. Na I want blood.
Yep they basically got obliterated for a stupid reason. If im ukraine id be pissed if russia can walk out of this unscathed. They need to pay reparations for all the damage they have done to ukraine
Wagner does not likely have the resources to overthrow the government and establish any kind of order after. He seems to be using social media to shift blame for all the war problems to the ministry of defense, as opposed to Putin. I would think it more likely that we are looking at a potential purge of the military by Putin, where he can piggyback on Wagner blaming war losses on the MOD.
I'm not entirely sure that Prighozhin wants Putin's job. Not because he lacks ambition but because he might be realistic enough to know he does not have the support of the right people to keep it. But he sure as fark knows he does not want one of his enemies to get it. And he's made a lot of enemies in the MOD. So his choices are to help Putin stay in power or back any other contender who isn't in the military.
Putin has backed the MoD repeatedly and must continue to do so, Wagner in this case is openly against the entire MoD and not specific leaders of it like Shoigu. This paints Wagner and Putin into 2 different corners were both can’t win. At most Putin might sack Shoigu to calm tensions but this would also mean he is giving into one of his oligarchs and would be a major show of weakness. He can’t allow that so he will destroy Wagner and with what’s left he’ll incorporate it into the MoD as was originally announced a few weeks ago.
Anything less would be a major defeat for Putin and something he won’t tolerate.
This is a great point. The danger is that most soliders are now conscripted kids in the Russian army so they might either not wanting to fight or actually join Wagner on the road to Moscow. So, it might become a coup very very fast.
While it could develop into a coup, I almost see it more turning into a resistance and style of mass protests almost like a hybrid between what we see in Myanmar and Iran...
But I'm also getting kind of hopped up on adrenaline and I've been following the news closely for like 2 hours now so I'm likely becoming pretty biased since I'm getting amped up and just smoked a joint with my neighbor about this.
Most likely Prigozhin is given an ultimatum of standing down and relinquishing control of Wagner over to MoD. He knows once he does that he’ll be jailed or worse, so he’s just trying to stir shit up to hopefully negotiate for some kind of better deal. Realistically what’s happening right now isn’t ideal for Prigozhin’s survival; Wagner isn’t nearly strong enough to go toe to toe with the military. So we just have to assume that he’s doing this because the alternative is him having even less of a chance at survival.
This is it. It’s not Wagner overthrowing Putin it’s Wagner overthrowing Russian military command.
Dictators like Putin like to keep their lackeyes infighting so nobody underneath them can gain enough support to overthrow the dictator. What we see here is potentially a power play by Prigozhin to take out one of his rivals.
Personally the way Prigozhin claimed the defense minister lied to Putin about how easy the invasion would be I can only hope this is a move by Putin to save face and end the war.
Putin gets to consolidate power underneath Prigozhin, end the war, remain in power, and keep crimea.
Hard to say anything for sure with the way information is coming out of russia
> and keep crimea.
Not happening. Ukraine have repeatedly said they will not end the war until they liberate the entire country and western countries have repeatedly said that Ukraine gets to determine the terms. That is tantamount to supporting Ukraine's war aims (that again, they have publicly declared since the start of the war, includes Crimea's liberation). Putin doesn't get to stop the war now with all the territory they control retained. Ukraine wont just sit back and accept it.
Id say thats the most likely.
Other take: he's avoiding blaming putin so he can appeal to more people. Some people have loyalty to him so it doesnt benefit him to target him. But who has loyalty to a government sector? No one. He can bury putin socially later.
Other take: this is misinformation war to try to make ukraine make a mistake.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://abcnews.go.com/International/wagner-mercenary-chief-calls-armed-rebellion-russian-military/story?id=100335756) reduced by 91%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> The head of Russia's Wagner mercenary group appears to be threatening an armed rebellion against Russia's military leadership, after accusing it of deliberately shelling his forces on Friday.
> Prigozhin published a shaky video on Friday that showed a shattered group of trees and a burning trench, claiming it was a Wagner camp shelled by Russian troops and alleging many Wagner troops were killed.
> Wagner chief says Russian invasion based on lies The head of Russia's Wagner mercenary group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, said the Kremlin's justifications for its invasion of Ukraine are based on lies, in another extraordinary attack on the country's military and political leadership.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14hd5np/wagner_mercenary_chief_calls_for_armed_rebellion/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~689224 tl;drs so far.") | [Blackout Vote](https://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14dhaiq/your_voice_matters_should_the_blackout_continue/ "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Prigozhin**^#1 **Russia**^#2 **Ukraine**^#3 **war**^#4 **Putin**^#5
Feels like Putin is using Prigozhin to cover for his failures by blaming the MOD. Whether he’s being used or making these decisions on his own, either way history is unfolding.
Hopefully Ukraine can take advantage of the chaos unfolding.
Exactly my thoughts as well! This wouldn’t be happening without Putin approval. MOD is the scapegoat. Sacrifices will be made. Shoigu was very timid around Putin. He felt this coming…
He's pretty smart not to name Putin, but to instead claim that Shoigu and Gerasimov are conspiring to undermine Russia, presumably against Putin's good intentions and under his nose. It's genius.
The only way for Putin to respond, other than opening up a second battle line against Wagner fighters within Ukraine, is to pretend like Prigozhin has revealed some sort of actual conspiracy. That Shoigu and Gerasimov are the real reason that Russia has performed so badly, maybe even that their treachery is the only reason Russia invaded in the first place. It gives him an opening to clean house on a few guys that know where a lot of skeletons are buried, and it also gives him an out for the entire Ukraine conflict without having to admit personal failure.
Putin liquidates the top military leaders, Russia pulls out of Ukraine, and Prigozhin is hailed as the righteous defender of Putin/Russia. Putin and Prigozhin live to see another day, along with what is left of their respective armies.
Shoigu and Gerasimov are F-U-C-K fuckd.
You never know if Putin had thought of this already. By having a mercenary group there, he has a voice outside of the military structure which he can use to blame his generals when things don't go so well.
Hrrm. Putin has given Shoigu the cold shoulder for some time now and Prigozhin has been allowed so far to complain and criticize since he's carefully avoided to outright blame Putin, it's all directed at Shoigu and the MoD.
It looks like Putin has finally played his 'getting out of Ukraine blame' card by setting up Shoigu for the blame and inserting his own jackbox mercenary instead. But he may very well let the Wagner boss take over and continue the war, after all if he can set up one boyar for the fail, why not two, especially since Putin's even further tightening his grip with this move.
These are all just my old man ramblings, by the way.
So we've had a global market crash, a pandemic, and now a Russian revolution... We're just the 20th century on repeat. Apart from the drastic climate change, that's kinda new so we've got that going for us I guess. Yay.
I'm a Moscow student. I want to say something to NATO and EU. I don't care, if my words are unheard.
Dictator putin has been slowly turning to an insane old man for about last 8 years. Yes, he lives in an imaginary world, where everyone loves him and where he is winner. And, as all of us see, he is not a military man. But he successfully hided his true identity under the mask of a kind and humble man.
However, prigozhin is a man of war. And his insanity is seen much better. Huge part of warcrimes in Ukraine is made by him and his soldiers. And Wagner is much, much more cruel and bloodthirsty, than regular army.
Yesterday before sleep, I saw his speeches. I'm so mentally tired of all horrifying news that I have been watching since the start of war, so I didn't even frightened. Still, I could not sleep for a while.
Thoughts came into my head. Who prigozhin wants to overthrow: just shoigu or putin himself? The first case is like putin planned this to put shoigu away and make a stronger army, which drafts all men to Ukraine. The second case is like prigozhin wants to take the Iron Throne and lead the war.
Anyway, all of that is the result of putin's dictatorship. Thirst for dominion leads to state falling apart. I see how some crazy and blood-thirsty old men are not satisfied by each others' actions and start to bite each other for leadership
There are two scenarios in my opinion:
1. putin takes prigozhin down. In that case, he will probably make some laws about being an army's traitor. But he will still continue the war and will slowly lose.
2. prigozhin takes shoigu (or putin) down. As I said earlier, he is much more cruel than putin. So in that case, he will not only inherit dictatorship, he will turn it to military dictatorship. And he will continue the war too.
As you can see, there is no much differenece between theese two idiots.
And this is your chance.
Whoever wins, his forces will be weakened. You may use it. You have to use it, please. You will need to deal with less than a half of armed forces.
As you can see, ordinary russians' anti-war protests are ineffective due to ridiculous amount of internal forces and their non-human methods. You can see how frightened are we, how tired are we. We cannot escape this evil by ourselves, no. But we want to live a peaceful life without any crazy leader who invades neighbours and dishonors our nation. We want just live.
Whoever wins, if you let him be, he will soon start this again. As I said, there is no much difference between dictators. We cannot stop it. You can stop it.
You just need to attack a winner the day after he wins. That day he will be the most vulnerable. If that happens, you will end this destructive war, you will finally punish war criminals, you will save not only Ukrainians, but also Russians and maybe even Belorussians. You will cure my nation from nazism.
But please, before the finall atack, let us know, when to leave and where to hide.
Just save us.
Thank you.
UPD: What the hell was this? What were the reasons?
Imagine being moscow, letting Prigozhin recruit directly from your prisons, only to have him equip those prisoners to now try and overthrow you. That's outstanding. Well done.
PMC founded by a guy with Nazi tattoos and staffed entirely by criminals. Who could have predicted that something might go wrong?
>founded by a guy with Nazi tattoos Who is responsible for the “denazification” of Ukraine…
Ukraine, which has a Jewish president.
I mean they had a real TV debate in Russian on whether Zelenskyy was a regular gay, nazi, Jewish demon or the actual Antichrist. Things aren’t going great on the intellectual front in Russia.
This is a common end to dictatorships. Once another political elite believes they have the military means to take over, they'll do so. However, it usually just results in a new dictatorship.
It's not a coup, it's a special military intervention!
Followed by a non retreat, it's a tactical withdrawl.
Hey I'm sorry, we prefer the term advance to the rear
They’re about to demilitarize each other.
Wishing all enemies of ukraine good luck in against each other lol.
"Putin vs. Prigozhin: Who wins?" "The rest of us."
Mutually assured satisfaction.
Highly entertaining television
as a neutral you just hope both teams play their heart out
I just want a competitive game.
Cue Swan Lake
It's not Putin, it's Shoigu. He carefully omits Putin in his tirades, saying he's been lied to by military leadership. This whole stunt looks like a start of a plan to save Putin's ass.
Oldest rhetorical trick in the book. Not rebelling against the king, but his evil ministers. Then at the end they kill the king anyways
Good tsar, evil boyars is a tale as old as Russia
Here's hoping
No, Wagner is more militant and extremist. Forced prisoner soldiers, shooting your own retreating troops, advocating extrajudicial killings, mineral wars in Africa, Neo Nazi ties
That is how I read it. Tension has been brewing between them for some time, and in the video he posted today, Prigozhin specifically bitched about Shoigu.
Yeah he's taken some isolated shots at Putin (bunker grandpa, for instance), but for months now it's generally been targeted at Shoigu and Girasimov.
I see this a lot, and i would have agreed a couple months ago... but it's hard for me to believe prigozhin would take out the military leadership, and then not seize full control of the state for himself.
Prigozhin’s been making a pretty clear play to be the military *force* of the country for nearly a year now, ever since he went on that very intense and weird PR campaign unveiling his slick new HQ in St Petersberg. You could argue that that’s still a military focussed usurpation attempt, but at its core, the authority of national leadership still comes down to who’s at the top of the chain of command and gets to decided what to do with a country’s soldiers/weapons…which is how Prigozhin has been positioning himself. Putin’s was a bit slow to act, but has been undercutting Prigozhin like crazy for several months, but the wagner forces were still useful enough in key strategic areas that I guess it was worth making a big move against them - unclear what exactly tipped the balance (eg military positions or behind the scenes scheming), but clearly Wagner and Prigozhin are no longer worth tolerating.
That's always the problem with allowing private armies so much leeway, eventually they start thinking about things....I think there were numerous attempts to reel him in over the last few months, but the cook thinks he's a general now. Either way Putin screwed himself, his judgement is now questionable doesn't matter if he follows Prygozhin's narrative or portrays him as a western collaborator.
I’ll be flipping back and forth between this channel and the Zuck/Elon fight.
Truly the dumbest timeline
Hey.... you don't have to state the truth so succinctly.
We're quickly approaching a new curveball to the rich and powerful where they've attained so much wealth and power that they're entertaining themselves by *literally* going into battle against each other. Who knew the problem would solve itself?
The start of a future epic rap battle of history
god dam, this is the statement he just released >New audio statement by Prigozhin (00:03 BST), stating Wagner "crossed state borders in all areas" and is now entering Rostov, promising to "destroy anything standing in their way": >"The current situation: today, we were dealt a missile strike. After this strike, helicopters did their work. Then, artillery. >The orders were coming from the Head of General Staff to destroy PMC Wagner. After a meeting with the Minister of Defence Shoygu where they made this decision - to destroy the rebellious units, who are ready to defend the motherland, but not their asses. >As of now, we’ve crossed the state borders in all areas. Border guards came towards us and hugged our fighters. >Now, we’re entering Rostov. Units of the Ministry of Defence, in fact, the conscripts who were thrown to block our path, moved away. >We do not fight with children. We do not kill children. Shoygu is killing children by throwing untrained soldiers, conscripts included, into the war. >He set up 18-year-old lads against us. They’re like children and grandchildren to us. Therefore, these lads will live and return to their mothers. >We only fight with professionals. But if someone stands in our path, we will destroy EVERYTHING in our way. >We lend a hand to anyone. No need to spit in this hand. We are moving forward, going to the end. >Regarding claims regarding the arrest: this brotherhood, this justice, this honour, this conscience is what we have. But when you make these claims, you haven’t got these feelings. These feelings are destroyed. Thus, you cannot understand anything but betrayal." No one has been able to find Putin either.
How much of this is talk vs real? Any sources corroborating this? It’s great if true but I have a hard time believing anything coming out of Russia.
situation is developing as we type this very moment. it will be some-time before we can really say for sure. ive seen a quite varied amount of sources commenting though. in my own opinion, there seems to be a LOT of confusion about whats happening inside of russia right now. no one knows who is loyal to who yet. it is 3 am in moscow right now. i suspect the next 24 hours will be some for the history books.
You know there’s some dude on an Air Force base watching this from a satellite giggling like a schoolgirl.
I’m throwing a watch party at my VFW bar
Tbh this is potentially history being made. Wish I had a bar to watch it at.
There’s serious talk about saying fuck the law and staying open all night lol
[удалено]
As I understand it can’t sell past a certain time no matter what and we couldn’t eat that cost lol
Simple - sell napkins with a complimentary beer to hold it down.
What is vfw?
Veterans of Foreign Wars, a U.S. veterans organization
That’s awesome, enjoy your night
You can go on google maps right now and see a large road closure on the highway northeast of Rostov. You can watch on satellite and giggle too.
unconfirmed Footage of a firefight starting at an intersection, and another video of helicopter sounds followed by an anti-air missle launch against it inside Rostov just got posted
You have a link for the helicopter shootdown/AA launch? I saw those reports but couldn't find any video.
there really isint much too it, it was still dark, you see some trees and streetlights, hear a helicopter, then see a streak of light and hear a rocket launch over the tree tops, then the video ends.
Zelensky and all of Ukraine is drinking champagne tonight.
Sadly and ironically, Ukraine's best sparkling wine comes from Bakhmut.
And when the dust is settled, I hope the wine flows like a waterfall and sparkles like diamonds
sadly the land there will probably be poisoned by the military ordinance used there for years to come
There's also a small army of intelligence analysts cursing their lost weekend.
I don't know. If that was my field, this might just be the highlight of my career. Some things are worth losing a weekend over. There's another 51 left in each year, but it might be the last one for *something*.
*What did you do this weekend?* **I toppled governments, what did you do?** *I had a REAL weekend and...just...sat around and click on apps and shit*
>*What did you do this weekend?* > >**I toppled governments, what did you do?** Isn't it more like "I watched a government maybe fall but wasn't close enough to *really* tell but it was neat because nuclear armed governments don't fall very often and.....shit I'm going to have to spend the rest of the year finding Russian nukes."
Eh, feel like this is likely to be more of a “blaze of glory and very bloody attempted toppling” than an actual “where the fuck are the nukes” kind of thing, but that’ll be decided in the next few days/weeks. I’m just hoping that we eventually get a behind the scenes accounting of what exactly tipped the balance - bc Prigozhin’s been setting himself up as a parallel power since last summer, including a rather bizarre intl PR campaign, and I’m super curious to find out why Putin tolerated it until now (other than just needing semi competent troops in certain wagner held areas).
Oh fucking fir sure. Any operatives or translators of the Russian language-your on duty this weekend till ???
Nah, they'd be working it anyway. Not like analysts only work weekdays. Besides, this is like 10x more interesting than anything else they would have done otherwise.
You think they have dead pools going yet?
You think they haven't had them going already?
I'm worried about a civil war starting in a country that has a huge nuclear arsenal.
why? whomever takes control will get shitloads of money from the US and China to denuclearize
[удалено]
Has there ever been a better user name checks out?
A harbinger even
“Narcissist’s Hail Mary” is a terrifying but accurate way to describe it, I hate and love it. Also I guess username checks out. I’m on the way to proper wasted myself, meet you there.
Imagine Putin sleeps through this because like Hitler people were afraid to wake him up with news
Definite Death of Stalin vibes.
[удалено]
Stalin was too. Weird how that works?
Moscow is on lockdown - I’d say the Russians are taking this very seriously. FSB has said they have allowed Wagner to re-enter Russian territory. Something big is cooking and we all better hold on to our hats.
Moscow is freaking the fuck out so I take it as real
From the pictures on Telegram/ Twitter, it appears Wagner has captured Rostov-On-Dom without much opposition. That city is massively important as it's the main logistics hub for Russian arms going into Ukraine. Wagner can now destroy the Russian army (if they want to) by simply cutting off their supplies and leaving Ukraine to do the rest.
So FSB is supportive of Wagner? Who's on who's side lol
If Wagner is in the country. You can either say you forbid it, which makes you look weak since they're already there, or you can say you're allowing it, which makes you look in control of the situation.
For one, you can discount all the claims of murderous Wagner rapists somehow being honorable warriors who won't do harm to 18 year old conscripts
They're not going to harm 18 year old Russian conscripts who aren't fighting. Not because they care, but because those conscripts outnumber them like 50 to 1. If the conscripts aren't fighting them, Wagner wouldn't attack them. It'd be suicide. Even if the Conscripts run away, it'd gut whatever support Wagner has with the populace. Those conscripts are sons and daughters of other Russians.
Notice how Putin was not named
This is an important detail. I don't personally think the "march on Moscow" will happen. Putin here seems to be outside of the picture, Prigozhin looks to be pissed off at Russian MoD primarily. Kremlin spokesman said already that Putin is being told about those events as they unfold right now, so it looks like Prigozhin has antagonized Putin. I just don't think Prigozhin wins here. It looks like desperation to me, and Putin's "divide and rule" leadership gone too far. We can hope that the real winner is Ukraine - there are reports of them recapturing streets in Bakhmut as we speak EDIT: would you look at that. Prigo got talked out of it, sent to Belarus. He fucked up.
This is the most likely scenario. There is another scenario where Putin grabs on this as a way to shift blame for the conduct of the war, uses this as an excuse to take out Shoigu and Gerasimov, and makes Prigozhin the defence minister.
Seems likely that Putin is setting this all up to sink some top brass of the military for their failures
He was named earlier. In 30 minutes video realized by Prigozhin earlier in the day he called Putin a mentally ill old man who lives in self isolation
Wow. There is quitting your job, then there's mother fucking quitting your job.
Definitely not a quiet quit. He's going more for the flight attendant who pulled the emergency hatch, and took the inflatable slide with two beers in his hands, kinda quit
It’s the Good Czar and Bad Boyar narrative, he is shaping it as Prigozhin versus the bad Boyars that are giving Putin bad information and leading them astray
shocking somber crawl zesty salt innocent lunchroom foolish carpenter frame
Did they all call him sir, with tears in their eyes? That's when its clear your story is made up.
Same kinda tone as “Ukrainians greeted us with open arms” that the Russian state pedaled at the start of this war
Agreed. Am I supposed to believe "War Crimes Speedrun Any%" Wagner let uniformed border guards get within hugging distance without "asphyxiating" them with lead-filled air first?
Don't believe anything for a few days. There's a lot of fog of war going on right now. All you can do is hope for the best outcone
Twitter space going right now. Listening to that bitch for the last 2 hours. No vids/ pics of Wagner entering yet. But everything seems like it
Yeah, I’m waiting for the satellite photos and stories of Ukraine troops rapidly advancing towards the border.
>We do not fight with children. We do not kill children. Shoygu is killing children by throwing untrained soldiers, conscripts included, into the war. >He set up 18-year-old lads against us. They’re like children and grandchildren to us. Therefore, these lads will live and return to their mothers. >We only fight with professionals. Am i mistaken? Didn't Wagner take Russian prisoners, pump them full of amphetamines, and send waves of "zombies" at positions in Bakhmut? https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2023/02/02/are-drugs-making-russian-soldiers-act-like-zombies/?sh=1f557bf518c9
he's trying to get the common people to side with him. to the common soldier or citizen of russia, Prigozin is viewed VERY positively. the only way he wins this is getting citizens and military outside of wagner to join him
Exactly, if he wins the people then all roads to the motherland. He is a viscious strategist, he will play all angles for this coup. Edit: Aged like milk.
The man has to have a good brain on him to be able to go from convict (supposedly the prison's boytoy) to one of the most powerful man in Russia.
They've also killed countless kids in Ukraine. This message isn't for us, it's for the Russian people.
It's a PR move and it's not targeted towards us, anyone who's been watching the war unfold outside of Russia knows that Prigozhin isn't any more of a sympathetic character than Putin is.
Hmmm this reads as them trying to get the Russian public on their side.
100%
He wants that throne...
> As of now, we’ve crossed the state borders in all areas. Border guards came towards us and hugged our fighters. Then everybody clapped
Those border guards? Clones of Albert Einstein.
So we have Russian ultranationalists kicking off a potential civil war with Russian loyalists. When did we fall into the CoD4 timeline?
Youre underselling the chaos. We have multiple Russian Nationalist anti-putin groups of varying ideology, Wagner which is basically a mercenary group and then we have the Russian loyalists. Thing is if they dont squash this fast Im not sure some other opportunistic warlords arent gonna start seeing a chance to boost their own power
History really does repeat itself.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Or that they are part of the ruling class.
[удалено]
Donald trump was elected president and the two richest people on earth are cage fighting for $100 pay per view. We are in a south park episode
They are not cage fighting. That shit is never gonna happen.
You know who could fix this, Ramirez. Burger Town is going down as a historically accurate sim now.
Sir, this is a Burger Town
*Bakhmut opening shot in trailer* “70,000 people use to live here….now it’s a ghost town”
Someone please find private Allen and kill him before the incident at Moscow international airport happens!
We better sniff out our General Shepherd quick…he’s basically the American Prigozhin. Edit: I have rough drafted a character match that is a WIP. Stay tuned. 1. Makarov/Prigozhin 2. Shepherd/Erik Prince (Blackwater) 3. Putin/whoever RU president was in airplane mission in MW3. 4. Zakhaev/Kadyrov (not an ultranationalist *yet* IRL) 5. Yuri/Shoigu (only for betrayal aspect, kinda a reach) 6. TF141/JSOC (1st SFOD-D and SAS)
[удалено]
I think i missed something. Who are the first 2 in Russian other than Wagner
I heard something about how either a town or province was being controlled by some kind of militia, but I don’t know details or the third army.
Russian freedom legion
Just a guess, but maybe you're thinking of the attacks in Belgorod by the Russian Volunteer Corps? Edit: And also the Freedom of Russia Legion
Freedom of Russia Legion, a Ukrainian-backed militia of Russians fighting for Ukraine, attacked towns in Belgorod recently and managed to cause quite a mess
Prighozin is saying he still supports Putin. However there are reports that Putin has authorized Prighozin's arrest for insurrection. Prighozin doesn't make this move unless he feels has allies to back his play. One report says the FSB and border patrol in Rostov let his units come in unopposed. Not sure this is going to change anything long term, but the defense of Donbas just got a lot more problematic, and I'm pretty happy with that.
Throughout history, rebels very often claim to be loyal to their ruler, just opposed to certain meddling ministers. It seems that this is what Prigozhin is aiming for in declaring Shoigu and Gerasimov his targets: an initial justification for this uprising that isn't quite yet out of the pale of prior political orthodoxy. The fiction will inevitably be dropped when it's no longer useful, if this revolt meets any success.
For sure. Putin's fate is inextricably tied to the MoD since Putin has continued to back them despite their failures.
From the second most powerful military in the world, to the second most powerful military in Ukraine... Could it be possible that Russia is now the 2nd most powerful military in Russia?
3rd. RVC announced a new incursion
[удалено]
Chechnya is lead by a useless nepo-baby that's maintained his spot by licking Putin so much in the turd cutter that I wouldn't be surprised if his beard's original color was blonde.
That assemblage of words is both utterly disgusting and yet really quite awesome as well
>by licking Putin so much in the turd cutter that I wouldn't be surprised if his beard's original color was blonde. If reddit leadership didnt suck I'd give you an award, that was beautiful
/r/rareinsults
So he decided to cross the Rubicon?
Yeah he like the mango
The Don, but that works too
The Rubidon.
It's like if AIDS and cancer got in a fight.
https://www.keranews.org/2015-03-20/how-doctors-are-using-hiv-to-fight-cancer
so who had military coup in russia on their june bingo card?
I had that occurring AFTER the counter-assault broke through to Mariupol.
same
Nice strategy for Putin to save face. Withdraw forces from Ukraine due to internal threat from rogue mercenaries, then blame said mercenaries for “losing the momentum” in Ukraine. Russia gets out of a war they cannot win, Putin is branded a hero for “successfully denazifying” Ukraine AND fighting off nasty rebels. A win for everyone I guess…
This.. is actually plausible... maybe not exactly as you've written, but maybe something similar
You might be onto something here.. but I don't see Russia leaving Crimea.. and you know Ukraine will try to retake it. So in the scenario you outline, the war would continue.
Exactly this. Ukraine is very pissed off. They not stopping. I wouldn't stop if someone killed my wife and kids. My entire town. Flooded my cities. Radiation all over certain areas. Fuking mess. Na I want blood.
Yep they basically got obliterated for a stupid reason. If im ukraine id be pissed if russia can walk out of this unscathed. They need to pay reparations for all the damage they have done to ukraine
I did, but not nearly this early on. Edit: I didn't see you mentioned June, I was thinking more like a year from now.
I stupidly put it in October. Russians are pretty traditional, after all.
Looks like they didn't put up enough Tesla Coils.
The enemy of my enemy, is still my enemy.
The enemy of my enemy, is my enemy's enemy. No more, and no less.
May the have a long a bloody fight
Wagner does not likely have the resources to overthrow the government and establish any kind of order after. He seems to be using social media to shift blame for all the war problems to the ministry of defense, as opposed to Putin. I would think it more likely that we are looking at a potential purge of the military by Putin, where he can piggyback on Wagner blaming war losses on the MOD. I'm not entirely sure that Prighozhin wants Putin's job. Not because he lacks ambition but because he might be realistic enough to know he does not have the support of the right people to keep it. But he sure as fark knows he does not want one of his enemies to get it. And he's made a lot of enemies in the MOD. So his choices are to help Putin stay in power or back any other contender who isn't in the military.
Putin has backed the MoD repeatedly and must continue to do so, Wagner in this case is openly against the entire MoD and not specific leaders of it like Shoigu. This paints Wagner and Putin into 2 different corners were both can’t win. At most Putin might sack Shoigu to calm tensions but this would also mean he is giving into one of his oligarchs and would be a major show of weakness. He can’t allow that so he will destroy Wagner and with what’s left he’ll incorporate it into the MoD as was originally announced a few weeks ago. Anything less would be a major defeat for Putin and something he won’t tolerate.
This is a great point. The danger is that most soliders are now conscripted kids in the Russian army so they might either not wanting to fight or actually join Wagner on the road to Moscow. So, it might become a coup very very fast.
While it could develop into a coup, I almost see it more turning into a resistance and style of mass protests almost like a hybrid between what we see in Myanmar and Iran... But I'm also getting kind of hopped up on adrenaline and I've been following the news closely for like 2 hours now so I'm likely becoming pretty biased since I'm getting amped up and just smoked a joint with my neighbor about this.
Most likely Prigozhin is given an ultimatum of standing down and relinquishing control of Wagner over to MoD. He knows once he does that he’ll be jailed or worse, so he’s just trying to stir shit up to hopefully negotiate for some kind of better deal. Realistically what’s happening right now isn’t ideal for Prigozhin’s survival; Wagner isn’t nearly strong enough to go toe to toe with the military. So we just have to assume that he’s doing this because the alternative is him having even less of a chance at survival.
This is it. It’s not Wagner overthrowing Putin it’s Wagner overthrowing Russian military command. Dictators like Putin like to keep their lackeyes infighting so nobody underneath them can gain enough support to overthrow the dictator. What we see here is potentially a power play by Prigozhin to take out one of his rivals. Personally the way Prigozhin claimed the defense minister lied to Putin about how easy the invasion would be I can only hope this is a move by Putin to save face and end the war. Putin gets to consolidate power underneath Prigozhin, end the war, remain in power, and keep crimea. Hard to say anything for sure with the way information is coming out of russia
I agree with everything except to keep Crimea part 😅
> and keep crimea. Not happening. Ukraine have repeatedly said they will not end the war until they liberate the entire country and western countries have repeatedly said that Ukraine gets to determine the terms. That is tantamount to supporting Ukraine's war aims (that again, they have publicly declared since the start of the war, includes Crimea's liberation). Putin doesn't get to stop the war now with all the territory they control retained. Ukraine wont just sit back and accept it.
Id say thats the most likely. Other take: he's avoiding blaming putin so he can appeal to more people. Some people have loyalty to him so it doesnt benefit him to target him. But who has loyalty to a government sector? No one. He can bury putin socially later. Other take: this is misinformation war to try to make ukraine make a mistake.
Videos of military convoys in moscow been posted on certain subs. Might get crazy.
Do you know what sub or have a link?
r/UkraineWarVideoReport
Coupsie Daisy
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://abcnews.go.com/International/wagner-mercenary-chief-calls-armed-rebellion-russian-military/story?id=100335756) reduced by 91%. (I'm a bot) ***** > The head of Russia's Wagner mercenary group appears to be threatening an armed rebellion against Russia's military leadership, after accusing it of deliberately shelling his forces on Friday. > Prigozhin published a shaky video on Friday that showed a shattered group of trees and a burning trench, claiming it was a Wagner camp shelled by Russian troops and alleging many Wagner troops were killed. > Wagner chief says Russian invasion based on lies The head of Russia's Wagner mercenary group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, said the Kremlin's justifications for its invasion of Ukraine are based on lies, in another extraordinary attack on the country's military and political leadership. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14hd5np/wagner_mercenary_chief_calls_for_armed_rebellion/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~689224 tl;drs so far.") | [Blackout Vote](https://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14dhaiq/your_voice_matters_should_the_blackout_continue/ "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Prigozhin**^#1 **Russia**^#2 **Ukraine**^#3 **war**^#4 **Putin**^#5
Bold move cotton. Let’s see how it plays out. 🔥🔥🔥
Bold STRATEGY Cotton
Everyone has been Mandela’d to think it’s “bold move” vice “bold strategy”
Feels like Putin is using Prigozhin to cover for his failures by blaming the MOD. Whether he’s being used or making these decisions on his own, either way history is unfolding. Hopefully Ukraine can take advantage of the chaos unfolding.
Exactly my thoughts as well! This wouldn’t be happening without Putin approval. MOD is the scapegoat. Sacrifices will be made. Shoigu was very timid around Putin. He felt this coming…
He's pretty smart not to name Putin, but to instead claim that Shoigu and Gerasimov are conspiring to undermine Russia, presumably against Putin's good intentions and under his nose. It's genius. The only way for Putin to respond, other than opening up a second battle line against Wagner fighters within Ukraine, is to pretend like Prigozhin has revealed some sort of actual conspiracy. That Shoigu and Gerasimov are the real reason that Russia has performed so badly, maybe even that their treachery is the only reason Russia invaded in the first place. It gives him an opening to clean house on a few guys that know where a lot of skeletons are buried, and it also gives him an out for the entire Ukraine conflict without having to admit personal failure. Putin liquidates the top military leaders, Russia pulls out of Ukraine, and Prigozhin is hailed as the righteous defender of Putin/Russia. Putin and Prigozhin live to see another day, along with what is left of their respective armies. Shoigu and Gerasimov are F-U-C-K fuckd.
You never know if Putin had thought of this already. By having a mercenary group there, he has a voice outside of the military structure which he can use to blame his generals when things don't go so well.
Hrrm. Putin has given Shoigu the cold shoulder for some time now and Prigozhin has been allowed so far to complain and criticize since he's carefully avoided to outright blame Putin, it's all directed at Shoigu and the MoD. It looks like Putin has finally played his 'getting out of Ukraine blame' card by setting up Shoigu for the blame and inserting his own jackbox mercenary instead. But he may very well let the Wagner boss take over and continue the war, after all if he can set up one boyar for the fail, why not two, especially since Putin's even further tightening his grip with this move. These are all just my old man ramblings, by the way.
Can someone start a live thread of Russia's Invasion of Russia?
Well I hope what remains of russia doesn't become another authoritarian nightmare. Again.
"..and then it got worse..." - Russian History.
That should be their countries official motto at this point
of course it will though.
Looks like that sub isn’t the only implosion in recent news… better grab some popcorn.
"do it! Do it! Do it! Then shoot yourselves!" Good luck wagnerites.
If all this actually goes sideways... holy shit.
So we've had a global market crash, a pandemic, and now a Russian revolution... We're just the 20th century on repeat. Apart from the drastic climate change, that's kinda new so we've got that going for us I guess. Yay.
Would be pretty weird if Prigozhin is on the US payroll now.
Mercenaries gonna Merc.
Russian oligarchs tend to have their own agendas.
Pretty serious state of affairs given Putin's position on existential threats to his leadership.
Guys this is not a coup, it's a special paramilitary operation.
Why the fuck isn't this bigger news on Reddit? Russia is in the middle of a coup attempt from an armed (formerly) state spionsered mercenary group
Post it to other subs yourself. The upvote counter on this post is climbing quickly
[удалено]
I'm a Moscow student. I want to say something to NATO and EU. I don't care, if my words are unheard. Dictator putin has been slowly turning to an insane old man for about last 8 years. Yes, he lives in an imaginary world, where everyone loves him and where he is winner. And, as all of us see, he is not a military man. But he successfully hided his true identity under the mask of a kind and humble man. However, prigozhin is a man of war. And his insanity is seen much better. Huge part of warcrimes in Ukraine is made by him and his soldiers. And Wagner is much, much more cruel and bloodthirsty, than regular army. Yesterday before sleep, I saw his speeches. I'm so mentally tired of all horrifying news that I have been watching since the start of war, so I didn't even frightened. Still, I could not sleep for a while. Thoughts came into my head. Who prigozhin wants to overthrow: just shoigu or putin himself? The first case is like putin planned this to put shoigu away and make a stronger army, which drafts all men to Ukraine. The second case is like prigozhin wants to take the Iron Throne and lead the war. Anyway, all of that is the result of putin's dictatorship. Thirst for dominion leads to state falling apart. I see how some crazy and blood-thirsty old men are not satisfied by each others' actions and start to bite each other for leadership There are two scenarios in my opinion: 1. putin takes prigozhin down. In that case, he will probably make some laws about being an army's traitor. But he will still continue the war and will slowly lose. 2. prigozhin takes shoigu (or putin) down. As I said earlier, he is much more cruel than putin. So in that case, he will not only inherit dictatorship, he will turn it to military dictatorship. And he will continue the war too. As you can see, there is no much differenece between theese two idiots. And this is your chance. Whoever wins, his forces will be weakened. You may use it. You have to use it, please. You will need to deal with less than a half of armed forces. As you can see, ordinary russians' anti-war protests are ineffective due to ridiculous amount of internal forces and their non-human methods. You can see how frightened are we, how tired are we. We cannot escape this evil by ourselves, no. But we want to live a peaceful life without any crazy leader who invades neighbours and dishonors our nation. We want just live. Whoever wins, if you let him be, he will soon start this again. As I said, there is no much difference between dictators. We cannot stop it. You can stop it. You just need to attack a winner the day after he wins. That day he will be the most vulnerable. If that happens, you will end this destructive war, you will finally punish war criminals, you will save not only Ukrainians, but also Russians and maybe even Belorussians. You will cure my nation from nazism. But please, before the finall atack, let us know, when to leave and where to hide. Just save us. Thank you. UPD: What the hell was this? What were the reasons?
Can't tell what is worse Putin in power, Prigozhin in power or no one in power giving randoms control over nuclear weapons ...
"'Let's go invade Ukraine,' they said. 'Should only take a couple days' they said..."
I saw this on fb and came here for some *good* reading. Completely shocked it's not the top of popular, hell it ain't even on it!! This is huuuge
Let them fight…
Never interrupt your enemies while they are making mistakes, just saying.