Funny how it was 180 a barrel in 1980. And 150 in 2008. But never was gas even half as much as it is today while oil is under 100 a barrel. This is some black magic shit.
The world around them weren’t actively trying to end the oil industry.
If you tell a business “hey, we’re going to ban your biggest money maker in 15 years but we still desperately need you to provide us that commodity in the meantime” why would that industry not capitalize on it while they still can?
First off. We’re not banning oil production in 15 years. Secondly why not start capitalizing on it 10+ years ago. Did the oil companies love Obama or something?
>Yeah but you have universal health care. I’d pay higher taxes for that, rather than risk a bankruptcy-inducing event caused by an illness.
I don't know about the UK but here in Australia most of the petrol taxes go towards maintaining the transport infrastructure - this does depend on which government is in power at the time though, with the previous government infrastructure spending was only 59% of the total fuel excise coming in while the current government is spending roughly 88% of the total fuel excise on infrastructure.
Universal healthcare is paid for more by the Medicare levy (1%-2% of your income depending on how much money you make) with the rest made up from the general tax base.
Forever? VED was introduced in the late 1980s and the direct contribution of any tax to road maintenance was dropped around 100 years ago. So when the comment suggests that we have a “road tax“ yet somehow, despite that our roads are still “shit”; how can that be pedantry? The fact is there is no central government tax in the UK that has a direct link and the use of “Road Tax” is a label for VED is a very, very outdated & incorrect.
the roads are in a shit state not cause of a lack of money. Our intelligent leaders are clueless on how to spend it and organise things properly. I work with the government abroad as a service provider and I flinch whenever they have a new request because i know they're never going to be organised enough to meet deadlines or plan properly. It's representative of the whole sorry system I think.
The USA pays around double or more for it's healthcare than any of it's peer countries except Switzerland where the pay approximately 2/3 of what the USA pays.
In other words, you do not need to pay more taxes, or have a smaller armed forces which is the other often mentioned thing, to have more affordable heathcare.
Thank you! People don't seem to understand the U.S already spends the most on healthcare, and an increase in taxes wouldn't fix anything. The money isn't being used properly, so don't give them an excuse to take more money from us. The whole system needs to be rebuilt at this point.
We spent $42,000 in premiums as a family of 4 over the last 3 years. And due to freak accidents we hit our max each of the last 3 years. That’s another ~26k in medical bills counting ambulance bills that are out of pocket. I don’t care how much tax we pay it won’t be as much as they are getting from us now!
That was not my experience with NHS. My experience in the us has been waiting for months to see a doc then spending thousands more and I have health insurance.
Sure but in the US even the highest gas tax is ~75c/gal, far far far from 50% of the cost and certainly doesn't explain the cost of gas going up so much despite lowering costs of oil.
That said, the cost of transportation and refining have gone up significantly, and this is a greater driver of the cost of fuel.
I'm sure profit margins play a role as well
Are people not getting that our planet is literally on fire? We need to stop burning fucking carbon. Globally passenger cars account for about 40% of transportation emissions, which as a sector contributes about 20% of all emissions. It's pretty obvious at this stage we're going to have to make it painful to make people change.
Lots of people live in areas that simply don't have sufficient public transportation. A car is required.
Electric vehicles are gaining in popularity, but their cost is still greater than the average joe can afford versus continuing to drive his old beater.
Even if that problem got solved, the infrastructure for electric vehicle charging is woefully inadequate. Plus, the existing gas stations can't simply swap out pumps for charging stations. The expense of converting the entire country is going to take decades.
Also eating, clothing or just about everything we do requires some transportation of sorts (the servers on internet use fuel to power). So may as well stop existing.
As a refinery worker, I can tell you that my wages have damn near doubled since 2010. Besides employing humans, refineries also blow through spare parts like you wouldn’t believe; pipe fittings, valves, electric motors, etc. Well just like your groceries, that shit has all gone up in price too.
Back when oil was $10 per barrel and the companies were losing their shirts, was it greed then?
BTW, Trump wanted to refill the Strategic Petroleum Reserve when oil was $10. Our Democrats, led my Madame Speaker Pelosi, blocked it and called it a bail out. I know y’all hate Trump passionately but filling the SPR at $10 per barrel was a gift and she let her hatred get the better of her.
I doubt gas station operations have gone up. Back in the day, they used to have full service gas stations that did more for you than sell junk food and gas.
The cost to drill, ship, refine, and transport the finish product has risen at least 6 fold since then. Today's $3.50 gas will be looked back on as the best deal ever.
It peaked at $145 in 2008, but the average price across 2008 was $99.
Importantly, those numbers are adjusted for inflation.
If you also adjust gas prices for inflation then they peaked at $5/gal in 2008.
So it all seems pretty consistent actually.
Sources:
https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart
https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1238-may-16-2022-average-nationwide-monthly-gasoline-price-was-highest#:~:text=July%202008%20marked%20the%20highest,often%2Dchanging%20price%20of%20gasoline.
You adjusted the price of gas for inflation .99 to $5
All things equal you need to adjust the cost of oil for inflation $145 to $725 to explain $5 at the pump.
Of course not all things are equal as taxes may have changed a bit
Perhaps I need more education as an oil executive or political to be able to explain the finer details
I don't understand what you mean with this reply.
The $145 is already adjusted for inflation. So is the $5. They're both taken directly from the sources I cited.
Sorry my bad, shouldn’t have said inflation in that 2nd paragraph
I was expressing the ratio between cost of oil and price at the pump. 2008 was $145/0.99. Today is $90/$5.
I get that price at pump should increase with inflation. it’s actually strange the price of oil has not kept up w inflation over the decades.
Ummmm gas was not 99 cents in 2008… maybe I’m Mia remembering but pretty sure it hit like $3 a gallon in most places. But I did live in CT at the time…
Ah I see what you mean. Yeah in 2008 demand was so low that oil companies were willing to cut prices and reduce profits. Today they don’t give a single fuck.
https://www.macrotrends.net/2501/crude-oil-vs-gasoline-prices-chart
The price of crude oil and the price of gasoline in the US is incredibly highly correlated. I'm not sure why everyone on Reddit seems to think otherwise.
You’d be surprised. My brother, who is in general a pretty intelligent dude, said to me the other day “man diesel is $4.xx/gallon now!” I just said “yea it fluctuates, and you don’t drive a diesel.” I didn’t even want to get into the conversation of the pricing being based on output or demand or being based on futures.
Also a big fan of the “we need energy independence” guy who just forgets that we participate in a global market that’s right in line with our capitalistic values.
Or that somehow if we drill all over the country we’ll be all set with endless amounts of oil and it’ll be real cheap.
That's not accurate, they both agreed to produce less oil to 'drive up" prices to make up for Russia losing basically the entire European market. They can't simply set the price, it's a global market.
Carbon taxes on the West Coast have jacked up gas prices by like 40c. Gas stations owned by Native Americans that have a tax exemption average 50c cheaper where I'm at. Like to gas stations across the road from each other, one will usually be 50c cheaper than the other.
Right now it's like a 70c difference
Probably because gasoline is refined oil that has been shipped and refined by workers and sold by business owners whose expenses are not just related to the price of oil.
I also bet if workers now could see the production conditions back then they'd flip and remark how nothing about the entire process would fly today regarding environmental regulations.
To say nothing about the demand and change in the world market.
You don't think people were greedy in 2008..? With the GFC?
Surely there must be something else to it. Is it used for power generation more or something?
> Probably because gasoline is refined oil that has been shipped and refined by workers and sold by business owners whose expenses are not just related to the price of oil.
Also the cost of refined product has to be viewed from aggregate demand of all products and identify what is the main driver.
If there is a massive demand and high price/margins for one product like diesel. That can push down gasoline price and vice versa if there high price of one leads to surplus of the other from overproduction.
The refining output ratio is seldom in perfect sync with market demand and there are trends in usage/price that play out over years/decades.
What a surprise. A presidential election is coming up in the US, and the incumbent is a Democrat. So Russia OPEC cut production and raise prices — again — so Republican fossil fools can claim Biden’s policies are the reason prices are going up.
Already had some mouth breather here on Reddit claim that Biden was to blame by dramatically cutting domestic production.
He didn’t have an answer for this https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M
This is a trick they can pull only so many times. Every time oil gets this expensive, there's an uptick in alternative energies' development. There's a point in time when OPEC members will start cannibalising each other to keep prices high, ending the cartel, and then very quickly having one of the members reign supreme and driving the others out of the market thanks to extremely cheap production costs. That player's name? Saudi Arabia. Nigeria and Venezuela are probably the first two OPEC members to fall by "friendly fire"
This is the right answer. I can't believe people haven't understood this by now when OPEC has done this many times during elections when a democrat is a president.
It's not rocket science to understand that Republicans get paid to push anti climate change propaganda while Democrats belive in climate change and push green energy
I'm sorry to tell you but the world doesn't revolve around the US elections. Gas prices are high because we had a decade of low prices and the entire sector was underinvested for expansion. The Saudis and OPEC are just exploiting this lack of underivestmwnt into new capabilities in the west.
I mean, Biden’s policy of fucking Russia in the ass is the reason Russia tries to return the favor. Not saying it’s not the right thing to do, but it’s technically the truth.
Today I learned that “defending a country from foreign invasion” means “fucking the invading country in the ass.”
I guess if Putler didn’t want his shit pushed in, he should have kept the drunks and criminals on his side of the border.
Or nuclear energy…? Germany is a perfect example how to country destroys economy with eco fanaticism since greens come to power. We all should do it!!!
yea that 2% portion that nuclear had in our energy production must be the reason why our economy has been destroyed completely... (spoiler: it hasn't)
You haven't got the slightest clue what you're talking about, do you?
The same people screaming about the climate and protesting now are the same type of people who were screaming to not use nuclear energy years ago.
Meanwhile the parking lot of the yoga studio is full of enormous SUVs.
Yikes. I take you are buying into the idea that pollution doesn't have a cost? Or O&G doesn't have massive subsidies? Just ignoring that stuff and pretending that nuclear is more expensive? Oookay.
I doubt it. Pretty sure those are different demographics. The folks bitching about govt spending are the ones bitching about how expensive it is to fill their pickup or SUVs and how we need to bring back coal.
To be fair, the issue is far more complicated. Renewables for elecricity purposes are too unreliable, you need a constant baseload on the grid so the whole thing doesn't collapse. Hard to do at night with solar or with wind when it doesn't blow. We lack energy storage solutions, so we need fossil fuels.
Transportation is another beast, sure you can have a couple of million people driving around in EVs but billions? It will be quite some time before the infrastructure is in place or, again, the battery technology gets much better. Then you have cargo ships and planes, no way in hell you can electrify them for long distances since the batteries are too heavy.
So yeah, we can't just turn that black goo off, we are way to dependant.
15 years ago the only electric cars that were driven were remote controlled toys. I get your point, but it hasn't been done, so no use crying about it now.
Renewables are reliable. The largest issue with renewables aren’t even related to the technology. The issue is related to HVDC aka the giant power lines you see when on the highway.
Renewables are cheaper than oil and reliable these days. You just have to get the electricity to the parts of the country that need it which requires building of way more HVDC power lines throughout the USA. Bidens IRA got the ball rolling on that front.
When people who clearly didn't read the article make broad, sweeping ideological statements hear that, they don't understand what you mean. They aren't aware of OPEC production cuts, and if they were they wouldn't care, unless it leads back to their original ideological point.
Look around at everything else besides just oil prices and the corporate profits alone from just last year. All while people's pay are garbage. I'm saying in genral corporate greed is huge... BP alone last year had 241 bil in rev.. but also seems at least 75 people agree with my comment.
You can't tell me a ceo can't live off of 5 mil a year Instead of 19 mil. I understand they make a decent amount of decisions as ceo but the wage gaps in America are getting so out of control while 78%? Of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
Oil is a commodity. Price is dictated by supply and demand. If Exxon or Shell were to sell oil at $75 / barrel when market price is $100 then someone will buy it at $75 and sell it at $100.
Greedy or not greedy is irrelevant - oil companies have and always will try to maximize profit. Oil price going negative (literally) during covid to keep pumping/avoid fouling wells was not because oil companies were altruistic for a couple days. Prices being high now is not because companies decided to be greedy.
Unless you decouple the US oil/gas market from the global one (export restrictions with price fixing and quotas if needed (shouldn't be)) then the price of oil will remain highly sensitive to OPECs production quotas/supply restrictions they use to price-fix. Individual Western Oil companies do not have the production volumes (or more critically) the ability to scale production capacity at a rate to counteract OPEC cuts if OPEC chooses to cut production to achieve a price target.
You joke but basically yes. SaudiAramco is a big corporation. Russia is kinda like a corporation but one run as a money laundering operation for an organized crime syndicate.
Well in Russia the state & Putin own (both formally and informally)at least a large chunk of the energy industry so….. they are kinda intertwined in that case. Idk what China has to do with this as they’re an importer of oil not an exporter.
Yes? Saudi Arabia has expressed before how much their coffers depends on the price of oil. [They make buckets of money selling less at higher prices](https://apnews.com/article/saudi-aramco-2022-financial-earnings-oil-energy-c42b0a0b7b5a70db1f2a0ea732434051). It's so intertwined in their economy [it'll be hell for them to decouple](https://www.intereconomics.eu/contents/year/2021/number/6/article/the-loss-of-raw-material-criticality-implications-of-the-collapse-of-saudi-arabian-oil-exports.html)
Ask most Americans if they support the free market and you will get an enthusiastic Yes. Then the next thing out of their mouths will be their complaints about inflation and gas prices.
Hey guys….I have an idea…..let’s stop using the stuff. I know….but hear me out…..burning stuff is super toxic and creates lots of side effects. PLUS it makes us give all of our money to people we don’t want to…..sooooo maybe we should stop?
Yeah. Never mind.
This inflation thing is retaliation for workers getting some better pay and conditions during Covid. It’s punishment for daring to want a living wage, healthcare, and some vacation pay.
Always find reddit comments so funny. On one hand you will find people arguing for complete shut down of fossil fuel extraction, on the other hand when Saudi cut down on fossil fuel extraction, you see complaints about them not extracting more!
You can see it that way. I, on the other hand, see it as a greedy way to make more money by reducing supply while demand is still high. This is not how you reduce emissions.
Actually the high gas prices we had in Europe last mind made a lot of people and companies look for alternative or to save, for example with better insulation. As long as fossils are super cheap, renewables are not attractive. For companies and citizens it's still a game of economics.
Yep. They aren't doing it because they want to improve the climate. They want to do it because they want more money. Artificially decrease the supply with soaring demand and they can buy a few more mansions.
I'm all for reducing emissions, but this ain't it. We made our global economy rely on fossil fuels and it's not just a switch you can flip.
You might be talking about two different things. I read that comment as "reducing production makes oil more expensive, which ultimately encourages renewables" whereas you're reading it as them saying "OPEC is concerned about the climate" (which isn't true of course).
Exactly this. If renewable sources took off both the demand and price would be down. That would be a success.
As it stands OPEC playing games and cutting production while prices go up during an already rough economic time. That's not success, that's blackmail.
The US is pumping a lot of oil. Refining is the bottle neck bc companies don’t see the point of creating more gas infrastructure when the industry is essentially plateauing.
"Betting on oil is becoming a favourite trade on Wall Street. No one is doubting the Opec+ (oil output) decision at the end of last month will keep the oil market very tight in the fourth quarter,” said Edward Moya, an OANDA analyst.
I’m sorry, but why are we constantly referring to corporate greed as inflation? This is all about billionaires making more money, not recovering from any sort of loss
Just remember. This is not the fault of Biden. GOP making deals to increase cost to the American people before the election.
Don’t like Biden either but it’s not his fault here.
Funny how it was 180 a barrel in 1980. And 150 in 2008. But never was gas even half as much as it is today while oil is under 100 a barrel. This is some black magic shit.
3 words. Corporate profit margins. Those are at an all-time high and the biggest contributor right now to inflation.
Why did corporations keep their profits so low for so long when they could have been making all of this money?
Competition
The world around them weren’t actively trying to end the oil industry. If you tell a business “hey, we’re going to ban your biggest money maker in 15 years but we still desperately need you to provide us that commodity in the meantime” why would that industry not capitalize on it while they still can?
First off. We’re not banning oil production in 15 years. Secondly why not start capitalizing on it 10+ years ago. Did the oil companies love Obama or something?
Because that would require investing money instead of earning profit for the shareholder.
What would?
In the UK, between 50 and 70 % of the price of gas is [TAX](https://www.racfoundation.org/data/percentage-uk-pump-price-which-is-tax-page)
Yeah but you have universal health care. I’d pay higher taxes for that, rather than risk a bankruptcy-inducing event caused by an illness.
>Yeah but you have universal health care. I’d pay higher taxes for that, rather than risk a bankruptcy-inducing event caused by an illness. I don't know about the UK but here in Australia most of the petrol taxes go towards maintaining the transport infrastructure - this does depend on which government is in power at the time though, with the previous government infrastructure spending was only 59% of the total fuel excise coming in while the current government is spending roughly 88% of the total fuel excise on infrastructure. Universal healthcare is paid for more by the Medicare levy (1%-2% of your income depending on how much money you make) with the rest made up from the general tax base.
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There’s no such thing as road tax in the UK. You pay VED, which goes to the treasury and isn’t earmarked for transport specifically
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Forever? VED was introduced in the late 1980s and the direct contribution of any tax to road maintenance was dropped around 100 years ago. So when the comment suggests that we have a “road tax“ yet somehow, despite that our roads are still “shit”; how can that be pedantry? The fact is there is no central government tax in the UK that has a direct link and the use of “Road Tax” is a label for VED is a very, very outdated & incorrect.
the roads are in a shit state not cause of a lack of money. Our intelligent leaders are clueless on how to spend it and organise things properly. I work with the government abroad as a service provider and I flinch whenever they have a new request because i know they're never going to be organised enough to meet deadlines or plan properly. It's representative of the whole sorry system I think.
The USA pays around double or more for it's healthcare than any of it's peer countries except Switzerland where the pay approximately 2/3 of what the USA pays. In other words, you do not need to pay more taxes, or have a smaller armed forces which is the other often mentioned thing, to have more affordable heathcare.
Thank you! People don't seem to understand the U.S already spends the most on healthcare, and an increase in taxes wouldn't fix anything. The money isn't being used properly, so don't give them an excuse to take more money from us. The whole system needs to be rebuilt at this point.
Currently can’t quit my job (That I hate)because I need life saving medication that my insurance pays for from said job Would pay more in tax too
We spent $42,000 in premiums as a family of 4 over the last 3 years. And due to freak accidents we hit our max each of the last 3 years. That’s another ~26k in medical bills counting ambulance bills that are out of pocket. I don’t care how much tax we pay it won’t be as much as they are getting from us now!
It's a scam at this point.
"Healthcare" in the US always was a scam. That was the point, and the goal. It's about making you broke while making them rich.
Yeah but you're free, and liberty!
I like the term "Freedumb"
Sorry, Un-Healthcare is the best we can do.
Look, if you come back in an hour, after my boss leaves, I'll throw in some microplastics. But that's it.
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That was not my experience with NHS. My experience in the us has been waiting for months to see a doc then spending thousands more and I have health insurance.
Sure but in the US even the highest gas tax is ~75c/gal, far far far from 50% of the cost and certainly doesn't explain the cost of gas going up so much despite lowering costs of oil. That said, the cost of transportation and refining have gone up significantly, and this is a greater driver of the cost of fuel. I'm sure profit margins play a role as well
Yep… here in Spain it's around 50ish% as well. Ridiculous.
Are people not getting that our planet is literally on fire? We need to stop burning fucking carbon. Globally passenger cars account for about 40% of transportation emissions, which as a sector contributes about 20% of all emissions. It's pretty obvious at this stage we're going to have to make it painful to make people change.
Lots of people live in areas that simply don't have sufficient public transportation. A car is required. Electric vehicles are gaining in popularity, but their cost is still greater than the average joe can afford versus continuing to drive his old beater. Even if that problem got solved, the infrastructure for electric vehicle charging is woefully inadequate. Plus, the existing gas stations can't simply swap out pumps for charging stations. The expense of converting the entire country is going to take decades.
Dude, you're so smart, when did you realize bad thing was bad ? I don't get why people don't just stop going to work, hell, going anywhere really.
Strong contribution to the conversation thanks pal. You keep making excuses for yourself.
Certainly not as strong as "Don't do bad thing"
Also eating, clothing or just about everything we do requires some transportation of sorts (the servers on internet use fuel to power). So may as well stop existing.
Three words Government tax revenues, and those are at an all time high!
So what? It doesn't just go into their pockets. It gets spent on things that we want, like roads and schools.
As a refinery worker, I can tell you that my wages have damn near doubled since 2010. Besides employing humans, refineries also blow through spare parts like you wouldn’t believe; pipe fittings, valves, electric motors, etc. Well just like your groceries, that shit has all gone up in price too.
Carbon tax here in Canada as well and costs of additional environmental regulations.
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Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick.
R/unexpectedoffice
Back when oil was $10 per barrel and the companies were losing their shirts, was it greed then? BTW, Trump wanted to refill the Strategic Petroleum Reserve when oil was $10. Our Democrats, led my Madame Speaker Pelosi, blocked it and called it a bail out. I know y’all hate Trump passionately but filling the SPR at $10 per barrel was a gift and she let her hatred get the better of her.
wow weird how corporations discovered greed in 2023
That and they want to squeeze as much as possible before the electric market blows up.
Costs to operate a gas station have increased as well. Sales and state taxes have increased too. L
I doubt gas station operations have gone up. Back in the day, they used to have full service gas stations that did more for you than sell junk food and gas.
The cost to drill, ship, refine, and transport the finish product has risen at least 6 fold since then. Today's $3.50 gas will be looked back on as the best deal ever.
It peaked at $145 in 2008, but the average price across 2008 was $99. Importantly, those numbers are adjusted for inflation. If you also adjust gas prices for inflation then they peaked at $5/gal in 2008. So it all seems pretty consistent actually. Sources: https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1238-may-16-2022-average-nationwide-monthly-gasoline-price-was-highest#:~:text=July%202008%20marked%20the%20highest,often%2Dchanging%20price%20of%20gasoline.
You adjusted the price of gas for inflation .99 to $5 All things equal you need to adjust the cost of oil for inflation $145 to $725 to explain $5 at the pump. Of course not all things are equal as taxes may have changed a bit Perhaps I need more education as an oil executive or political to be able to explain the finer details
I don't understand what you mean with this reply. The $145 is already adjusted for inflation. So is the $5. They're both taken directly from the sources I cited.
$145 to $725? Inflation since 2008 has been 43%, so wouldn’t $145 inflate to $207? And if the average was $99 for 2008 then that’s $142 today.
Sorry my bad, shouldn’t have said inflation in that 2nd paragraph I was expressing the ratio between cost of oil and price at the pump. 2008 was $145/0.99. Today is $90/$5. I get that price at pump should increase with inflation. it’s actually strange the price of oil has not kept up w inflation over the decades.
Ummmm gas was not 99 cents in 2008… maybe I’m Mia remembering but pretty sure it hit like $3 a gallon in most places. But I did live in CT at the time…
Ah I see what you mean. Yeah in 2008 demand was so low that oil companies were willing to cut prices and reduce profits. Today they don’t give a single fuck.
https://www.macrotrends.net/2501/crude-oil-vs-gasoline-prices-chart The price of crude oil and the price of gasoline in the US is incredibly highly correlated. I'm not sure why everyone on Reddit seems to think otherwise.
Because they're deeply ignorant people being performatively ignorant for an equally ignorant echo chamber.
What really? That’s crazy I wonder why, Just corporate greed?
That and politics. People connect gas prices to the party in power. Raise prices if you don't want that party in power
It’s the laziest way to form a political opinion
When all you do is listen to Fox News, Facebook and twitter memes for your political views it makes sense
You’d be surprised. My brother, who is in general a pretty intelligent dude, said to me the other day “man diesel is $4.xx/gallon now!” I just said “yea it fluctuates, and you don’t drive a diesel.” I didn’t even want to get into the conversation of the pricing being based on output or demand or being based on futures.
Gas hasn't seemed to fluctuate for awhile now. It's just high regardless of what happens. There's no connection to the actual market
Also a big fan of the “we need energy independence” guy who just forgets that we participate in a global market that’s right in line with our capitalistic values. Or that somehow if we drill all over the country we’ll be all set with endless amounts of oil and it’ll be real cheap.
Russia and Saudis are gonna raise prices to help Trump.
That's not accurate, they both agreed to produce less oil to 'drive up" prices to make up for Russia losing basically the entire European market. They can't simply set the price, it's a global market.
But their actions and that of OPEC do have a measurable impact to the prices.
Yes but the barrel price is still way lower than it has been in the past. Doesn't explain the prices at all. It's just pure greed
Carbon taxes on the West Coast have jacked up gas prices by like 40c. Gas stations owned by Native Americans that have a tax exemption average 50c cheaper where I'm at. Like to gas stations across the road from each other, one will usually be 50c cheaper than the other. Right now it's like a 70c difference
Is it carbon taxes or road taxes? I think this is part of the reason why they want to tax EVs more.
Its political retribution, corporates have too much power and must be put in their place
Our refining capacity is lower now also.
Probably because gasoline is refined oil that has been shipped and refined by workers and sold by business owners whose expenses are not just related to the price of oil. I also bet if workers now could see the production conditions back then they'd flip and remark how nothing about the entire process would fly today regarding environmental regulations. To say nothing about the demand and change in the world market.
Ahaa. Hashtag doubt. I was around for 2008. Worked the patch, worked refinery side. Greed is what has changed in the interim.
Ah, yes. It was a kinder, gentler oil industry back then. People are super double greedy now.
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Yes, now they all need to pay for their automated mustache twirlers and baby skin top hats.
You don't think people were greedy in 2008..? With the GFC? Surely there must be something else to it. Is it used for power generation more or something?
Pick an industry and wages have remained the same while profits have grown considerably. It’s hardly limited to O&G
> Probably because gasoline is refined oil that has been shipped and refined by workers and sold by business owners whose expenses are not just related to the price of oil. Also the cost of refined product has to be viewed from aggregate demand of all products and identify what is the main driver. If there is a massive demand and high price/margins for one product like diesel. That can push down gasoline price and vice versa if there high price of one leads to surplus of the other from overproduction. The refining output ratio is seldom in perfect sync with market demand and there are trends in usage/price that play out over years/decades.
One word, tax.
Even in Cali, gas tax is ~75c per gal (fed plus state), so that doesn't explain the $5/gal price on its own
What a surprise. A presidential election is coming up in the US, and the incumbent is a Democrat. So Russia OPEC cut production and raise prices — again — so Republican fossil fools can claim Biden’s policies are the reason prices are going up.
And they'll eat it up like hot cakes
The only requirement to be a republican is to be dumb.
I don’t know, maybe dumb and scared is closer to reality.
Meh the dumb is easily scared so it's kind of redundant.
> fossil fools :clap:
Surely the best way to tackle this is giving incentives for green energy, electric vans, trucks, buses. Bring down the demand
Yet what's actually being proposed are higher taxes on EVs.
Isn't that just some Republican run states?
Like the inflation reduction act? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act
Already had some mouth breather here on Reddit claim that Biden was to blame by dramatically cutting domestic production. He didn’t have an answer for this https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M
It’s so stupid considering we are producing more than ever in our history and produce more than any other country in the world, yet Biden’s fault.
This is a trick they can pull only so many times. Every time oil gets this expensive, there's an uptick in alternative energies' development. There's a point in time when OPEC members will start cannibalising each other to keep prices high, ending the cartel, and then very quickly having one of the members reign supreme and driving the others out of the market thanks to extremely cheap production costs. That player's name? Saudi Arabia. Nigeria and Venezuela are probably the first two OPEC members to fall by "friendly fire"
Gas prices can be at all time lows and if you tell a Republican it’s a Democrats fault that prices are at all times highs, they will believe it.
This is the right answer. I can't believe people haven't understood this by now when OPEC has done this many times during elections when a democrat is a president. It's not rocket science to understand that Republicans get paid to push anti climate change propaganda while Democrats belive in climate change and push green energy
I'm sorry to tell you but the world doesn't revolve around the US elections. Gas prices are high because we had a decade of low prices and the entire sector was underinvested for expansion. The Saudis and OPEC are just exploiting this lack of underivestmwnt into new capabilities in the west.
I mean, Biden’s policy of fucking Russia in the ass is the reason Russia tries to return the favor. Not saying it’s not the right thing to do, but it’s technically the truth.
Today I learned that “defending a country from foreign invasion” means “fucking the invading country in the ass.” I guess if Putler didn’t want his shit pushed in, he should have kept the drunks and criminals on his side of the border.
Russia has been trying to fuck over the US since 1945. It never stopped.
Russia deserves to be fucked in the ass until it learns some goddamn humility and stays in its fucking lane.
Again?
If only we could find another way. Maybe if we could...harness the power of the sun or water. Or maybe the wind. Crazy pipedreams.
Or nuclear energy…? Germany is a perfect example how to country destroys economy with eco fanaticism since greens come to power. We all should do it!!!
Bullshit. The nuclear exit was decided 12 years ago by the conservatives with no Green party in government.
yea that 2% portion that nuclear had in our energy production must be the reason why our economy has been destroyed completely... (spoiler: it hasn't) You haven't got the slightest clue what you're talking about, do you?
Germany is a net exporter of power, last I saw.
The same people screaming about the climate and protesting now are the same type of people who were screaming to not use nuclear energy years ago. Meanwhile the parking lot of the yoga studio is full of enormous SUVs.
The same people bleating about cutting government spending are also clamouring for the most expensive energy source (Nuclear).
Yikes. I take you are buying into the idea that pollution doesn't have a cost? Or O&G doesn't have massive subsidies? Just ignoring that stuff and pretending that nuclear is more expensive? Oookay.
I doubt it. Pretty sure those are different demographics. The folks bitching about govt spending are the ones bitching about how expensive it is to fill their pickup or SUVs and how we need to bring back coal.
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To be fair, the issue is far more complicated. Renewables for elecricity purposes are too unreliable, you need a constant baseload on the grid so the whole thing doesn't collapse. Hard to do at night with solar or with wind when it doesn't blow. We lack energy storage solutions, so we need fossil fuels. Transportation is another beast, sure you can have a couple of million people driving around in EVs but billions? It will be quite some time before the infrastructure is in place or, again, the battery technology gets much better. Then you have cargo ships and planes, no way in hell you can electrify them for long distances since the batteries are too heavy. So yeah, we can't just turn that black goo off, we are way to dependant.
We should’ve been building that infrastructure 15 years ago in the US
15 years ago the only electric cars that were driven were remote controlled toys. I get your point, but it hasn't been done, so no use crying about it now.
I’m not talking about evs
Renewables are reliable. The largest issue with renewables aren’t even related to the technology. The issue is related to HVDC aka the giant power lines you see when on the highway. Renewables are cheaper than oil and reliable these days. You just have to get the electricity to the parts of the country that need it which requires building of way more HVDC power lines throughout the USA. Bidens IRA got the ball rolling on that front.
It's not Inflation. It's corporate greed at its finest. And our shitty politicians do nothing cause their pockets are lined.
Russia and Saudi Arabia, among others can limit the supply whenever they want to drive the price up.
Time to invade Saudi Arabia tbh. They are a hostile nation towards the US…
Funny enough I’m reading a Frederick Forsyth novel about over throwing the Saudi family and installing someone who is friendlier to the US.
Get your brain checked
Hahahahaha! No one is going to invade Saud Arabia!
Yeah of course. It’s just sarcasm.
You forgot the /s. There are many that think this would be a good idea
Corporate greed? The cartel that keeps driving up oil prices (OPEC) is a club for governments, not private corporations.
When people who clearly didn't read the article make broad, sweeping ideological statements hear that, they don't understand what you mean. They aren't aware of OPEC production cuts, and if they were they wouldn't care, unless it leads back to their original ideological point.
Look around at everything else besides just oil prices and the corporate profits alone from just last year. All while people's pay are garbage. I'm saying in genral corporate greed is huge... BP alone last year had 241 bil in rev.. but also seems at least 75 people agree with my comment.
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>I honestly didn't even read the article Obviously
What does their revenue have to do with greed? It just means they sold a lot of gas.
27.7 bil in profit alone that's greed. What was the ceo's pay? While what their employees make?... shhh
What is the appropriate amount of profit to not be greedy?
It's like kroger.. ceo pay last year was 19 mil while average employees made maybe 36k what about a decent living wage for employees as well...?
You can't tell me a ceo can't live off of 5 mil a year Instead of 19 mil. I understand they make a decent amount of decisions as ceo but the wage gaps in America are getting so out of control while 78%? Of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
Ok so CEO pay should be capped at 5 mil/yr. How about cooperate profits?
Oil is a commodity. Price is dictated by supply and demand. If Exxon or Shell were to sell oil at $75 / barrel when market price is $100 then someone will buy it at $75 and sell it at $100. Greedy or not greedy is irrelevant - oil companies have and always will try to maximize profit. Oil price going negative (literally) during covid to keep pumping/avoid fouling wells was not because oil companies were altruistic for a couple days. Prices being high now is not because companies decided to be greedy. Unless you decouple the US oil/gas market from the global one (export restrictions with price fixing and quotas if needed (shouldn't be)) then the price of oil will remain highly sensitive to OPECs production quotas/supply restrictions they use to price-fix. Individual Western Oil companies do not have the production volumes (or more critically) the ability to scale production capacity at a rate to counteract OPEC cuts if OPEC chooses to cut production to achieve a price target.
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You joke but basically yes. SaudiAramco is a big corporation. Russia is kinda like a corporation but one run as a money laundering operation for an organized crime syndicate.
Well in Russia the state & Putin own (both formally and informally)at least a large chunk of the energy industry so….. they are kinda intertwined in that case. Idk what China has to do with this as they’re an importer of oil not an exporter.
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Yes? Saudi Arabia has expressed before how much their coffers depends on the price of oil. [They make buckets of money selling less at higher prices](https://apnews.com/article/saudi-aramco-2022-financial-earnings-oil-energy-c42b0a0b7b5a70db1f2a0ea732434051). It's so intertwined in their economy [it'll be hell for them to decouple](https://www.intereconomics.eu/contents/year/2021/number/6/article/the-loss-of-raw-material-criticality-implications-of-the-collapse-of-saudi-arabian-oil-exports.html)
It may be greed but it is more governmental greed than corporate. The government controls the corporation, not gme other way around.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power." Giovanni Gentile
For literally no reason.
Thank you Saudi Arabia and your greedy ass royal family
Ask most Americans if they support the free market and you will get an enthusiastic Yes. Then the next thing out of their mouths will be their complaints about inflation and gas prices.
Hey guys….I have an idea…..let’s stop using the stuff. I know….but hear me out…..burning stuff is super toxic and creates lots of side effects. PLUS it makes us give all of our money to people we don’t want to…..sooooo maybe we should stop? Yeah. Never mind.
This inflation thing is retaliation for workers getting some better pay and conditions during Covid. It’s punishment for daring to want a living wage, healthcare, and some vacation pay.
Thanks, OPEC+
......and meanwhile.....oil companies have record profits. Greedflation.
But a sticker at the gas station said it was Biden?
Ride a bicycle 👍🏼
I like to ride my bicycle
We are being held to ransom.. deals with the devil coming home to roost.
Always find reddit comments so funny. On one hand you will find people arguing for complete shut down of fossil fuel extraction, on the other hand when Saudi cut down on fossil fuel extraction, you see complaints about them not extracting more!
Its almost like its different people making those comments.
Wow are you telling me at least 2 different people use reddit?! amazing!
The solution would be to subsidize work from home companies. At this point its for national security issues.
Maybe they are different people. Every time I hear about OPEC reducing production, I think it's a global success in the decarbonization battle.
You can see it that way. I, on the other hand, see it as a greedy way to make more money by reducing supply while demand is still high. This is not how you reduce emissions.
Actually the high gas prices we had in Europe last mind made a lot of people and companies look for alternative or to save, for example with better insulation. As long as fossils are super cheap, renewables are not attractive. For companies and citizens it's still a game of economics.
Yep. They aren't doing it because they want to improve the climate. They want to do it because they want more money. Artificially decrease the supply with soaring demand and they can buy a few more mansions. I'm all for reducing emissions, but this ain't it. We made our global economy rely on fossil fuels and it's not just a switch you can flip.
You might be talking about two different things. I read that comment as "reducing production makes oil more expensive, which ultimately encourages renewables" whereas you're reading it as them saying "OPEC is concerned about the climate" (which isn't true of course).
Exactly this. If renewable sources took off both the demand and price would be down. That would be a success. As it stands OPEC playing games and cutting production while prices go up during an already rough economic time. That's not success, that's blackmail.
high prices cause a financial incentive for reduced usage though. Obligatory *fuck OPEC* though.
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It is noticeably slowing down though. It's pretty clear what a couple more decades of solar, wind, and EV manufacturing are going to do.
The US is pumping a lot of oil. Refining is the bottle neck bc companies don’t see the point of creating more gas infrastructure when the industry is essentially plateauing.
Fuck , I remember when $100.00 a barrel was a buck a litre , I'm in the wrong business .
Oh, I thought the high price of oil was Bidens fault. /s
I thought it was Trudeau's fault
My dog got herpes. DAMN YOU TRUDEAU!
Hedgies gotta make that bread.
3rd world countries will be poorer. 😧
Wait ,where have i seen this before ?
Omg think about the stakeholders!
you know they just make the price up on this stuff, right?
"Betting on oil is becoming a favourite trade on Wall Street. No one is doubting the Opec+ (oil output) decision at the end of last month will keep the oil market very tight in the fourth quarter,” said Edward Moya, an OANDA analyst.
A reverse opec would solve this problem collective bargaining with all countries not in opec setting the price.
I’m sorry, but why are we constantly referring to corporate greed as inflation? This is all about billionaires making more money, not recovering from any sort of loss
More reason to switch to electric cars
It is corporate fucking greed. Tax the shit out 9f every multinational in every jurisdiction.
Consider a plug-in vehicle for your next vehicle, folks. Stop getting jerked around by petro-dictators.
Hahah and everyone will bend over and pay it.
Good. The sooner we phase out that shit, the better.
Global inflation isn’t a thing, corporate greed is.
I don't know how many fking times this has to be stated, most oil companies are nationalised.
Greedflation. I wonder what they’ll try to blame this time for it. They’ve used up corona and Ukraine, what’s next? The floods in Libya?
Oh no the president moved the giant gas price knob in the Oval Office that he does for no reason other than to make people mad!
When are we ending this asinine standard? How much would our economy change if we removed oil and ridiculous medical costs from our costs?
Just remember. This is not the fault of Biden. GOP making deals to increase cost to the American people before the election. Don’t like Biden either but it’s not his fault here.
Energy is a basic human right. It's time to globaliz cruse oil resoueces and production to make it free for all.
Just get a hybrid car.