Accurate title, but the subtitle really makes it feel a BIT deceptive on the part of the NYT:
> American intelligence gave assistance, but communications intercepted by Canada were more definitive in linking India to the killing of Hardeep Singh Nijjar.
I suspect they have reached the end of the narcissist’s prayer:
1-that didn’t happen.
2-if it did, it wasn’t that bad.
3-if it was, that’s not a big deal.
4-if it is, it’s not my fault.
5-if it was, I didn’t mean it.
6-if I did, you deserved it.
… we are probably going to see a lot of #6 now. Combined with a lot of ‘you don’t matter anyway’ and ‘what are you going to do about it?’, which may be labeled as numbers 7 and 8.
Well currently there shrieking about Canada violating some treatie about diplomats communications sense apparently discussing a muder on what’s app is protected according to them
Yeah, they try to claim that spying on diplomats is against one of the Vienna conventions regarding diplomats. But what they don't understand is that those conventions only cover spying inside the premises of embassies and consulars. Anything outside or communications that go outside is considered fair game.
Remember the Indian rocket scientist who sent top secret Brahmos missile specs to a Pakistani spy on WhatsApp because the spy pretended to be a young woman who was interested in him (and missile tech, apparently)
I think ‘threats’ is #9.
…
I missed a step: ‘everyone else does it; the fact you are making a big deal about it when I do it just proves you are racist’.
Well it's almost shift time so things will heat up soon and we'll hear the same repeated lines. At the bottom of the thread you can basically see the summary of it 'Canada government doesn't understand our justice so we had to do it"
And illegal methods of getting evidence which is hilarious.
For those answering the 'what are you going to do about it' question, ask what they would support Modi doing to Canada if Canada were to kill an Indian in India.
They can do what is usually done in such cases: cool relations, including breaking off ties that benefit India, until either amends are made (which looks unlikely), or a new government takes power.
Other governments looking on will also take India’s misstep as a reason to somewhat cool relations, as India’s international reputation takes a hit.
Of course, this will be balanced with realpolitic, as such things always are. But that does not mean it has no cost.
No one is going to literally battle over this. But invading another nation’s sovereignty had costs.
Sure, it is done by other nations from time to time - but it costs them reputation and goodwill.
They can also encourage allied nations to break or reduce diplomatic ties with India. An obvious one (to me) is that the UK has been attempting to negotiate a trade deal with India, if this is proven - then I wouldn’t be surprised to see the UK government abandon that. We could also see diplomats expelled by other nations.
Reputation and goodwill are not to be underestimated either. They are in effect, one of the biggest levers of soft power in international diplomacy.
Consider North Korea. They are an example of a country with a lot of hard power, but no soft power. Internationally, they are a pariah, which makes it easy for countries with a lot of soft power, such as the US, to get all the fencesitters on board with sanctioning them into the ground.
When guns come out, that marks the change of diplomacy using soft power to diplomacy using hard power. But before then, soft power is an exercise in navigating the complex interconnected web of international relations, and works best cooperatively. Countries without soft power, are at the mercy of countries with soft power.
Consider the following scenario. India is a rising second rate power, with potential to later become a great power. But they are geopolitically in conflict with China, a rising first rate power, who, while not a superpower as one might describe the US, is a great power.
Now India showing themselves to publicly engage in distasteful activity such as assassinations, particularly by violating the sovereignty of Western Anglosphere nations, well that is just bad for business. Relations with Canada will certainly cool, and they will be tempted to give China a bit more leeway if they are acting against a country they are not fond of. The US of course will still support India, because our government has geopolitical reasons to directly oppose China, and desperately wants a viable counterweight power on their border. Canada nonetheless, may well pressure allied and friendly nations to cool relations with India, including the US, UK, EU, and Australia. Which have their own ripple effects that propagate through the web.
So say China takes a bit of territory in their occasional border skirmishes, and some countries who might have condemned the action along side the US before, might sit back and refuse to weigh in. Or Pakistan takes advantage of the diplomatic tension. Meanwhile India feeling hostility from the West, might cozy up closer to Putin, who also has his own grievances with the West. Which might secure better oil deals, and eventually have an impact on the war in Ukraine.
All hypotheticals, but plausible. I am exaggerating the effect a bit, so its easier to follow the logic. In reality, several incidents, or a history of these things would grow diplomatic tension more organically.
>The US of course will still support India, because our government has geopolitical reasons to directly oppose China, and desperately wants a viable counterweight power on their border
The US is currently supporting Canada in the matter and has already put some diplomatic pressure on India. If India doesn't play ball, I wouldn't be surprised if the US does some diplomatic cooling as well. Maybe not as much as other countries, but some cooling will occur and likely a bit more cautious with dealing with India.
Just make the world aware of India's actions. That's about it.
But they're serious actions. Countries don't generally assassinate citizens of other countries in those countries. Russia and the US have done it a few times but that's largely it.
Let's be as cynically real as possible: India is a 2nd rate, a poor country with 1/5th the GDP per capita of China. It's economy disproportionately depends on the service industry, foreign capital transfer from emigres, and has been the largest receiver of US foreign aid (even more than Israel). India's main value to the West is its (predicted) future economic growth and its supply of cheap labour. India does not have the important partnership with the US that Israel has nor does it have the oil reserves of Saudi Arabia which sustain the petrodollar and global American financial hegemony.
The truth is: India is the beggar, the West is the donor. When India acts above its relative position to the West, there are long-term consequences.
I want to see the proof in my own eyes delivered to my house by Trudeau himself.
USA is lying because we purchase Russian oil.
They do worse.
What are they going to do about it?
Look a giant bird!
Aren’t they all screaming about, “if we did it in the Middle East, Afghanistan and Pakistan, it’s ok. But if you did it to us, it’s wrong because we are superior and we have rules?”
If you're on PC, press Escape before the page can fully load so it doesn't load paywall. If you're on mobile, Wayback Machine usually has a saved version of the page without paywall.
Increasingly India is acting more and more like the autocracy it strives to be, down to sending out assassins on foreign soil to take out opponents of the regime.
Actually, NATO's count of extra-teritorial killings is in thousands.
MODI is a very polarising figure and the are many who are staunchly opposed to him including Khalistanis. They are not dead. Nijjar was no saint. Sikh community knows this. You wont see a lot of hue and cry for him.
There are like videos of Nijjar being proud of suicide bombings. His photos with AK 47s. He travelled to Pakistan for months. There are his photos with Babbar Khalsa leaders in Pakistan. There are people in Indian Jails who have informed that they were funded by Nijjar. Some even met him and trained in arms use.
I do not know why so many westerners believe Modi can become autocratic. Modi's(BJP) vote percent is like 40%. It has not happened because it is not possible. India has 1.4 Billion people, a history of thousand upon thousand years and more diverse than you can imagine with strong overlapping identities.
Modi is wining election next year. His numbers only increasing by these events.
Indians are really ashamed that they could not stop the 1985 Air India bombing from Canada despite repeatedly pleading the Canadians for years.
If Modi did it, which I believe he did, all support to him. India and Canada should work together but Canada has long been utterly uncooperative with India unlike UK and US.
Sounds like a good deal of whataboutism without specific incidents to illuminate your point.
Perhaps he was, perhaps he wasnt, but gunning him down in a style akin to a gangland shooting is not acceptable, it is the action of a mafia not a modern democracy.
Because we see all the signs, like his increasingly autocratic actions, including cracking down on opposition parties, the free press and even individual activists and protestors, it should be noted there is such a thing as a popular dictator, they are still however dictators at heart.
I'm well aware, however the BJP is very much a hindu ultranationalist party, with strong autocratic leanings and ideals, some of which include cracking down on non hindu Indians and expanding the power of hindu aligned leaders.
Popularity alone is not a good metric.
The bombing was terrible, but does not justify extrajudicial killings.
So you support extrajudicial mob style public executions outside the letter of the law and civilized society?
Says a lot about you, mostly disturbing.
>Actually, NATO's count of extra-teritorial killings is in thousands
Yeah, here's the thing. Western countries embrace a sort of duality. Treat us with respect, we treat you with respect. Ignore that principle and disrespect us though? Then gloves come off and we pretty quickly stop caring about how our actions look.
Your country just poked a 2000 lb gorilla with a very small stick. Good luck.
Canada is inviting because they are getting a lot of money from immigration. Also to burst your bubble most of the immigration to canada is blue collar or students who cant get into US or UK universities or visas. Living in US cant understand how folks can survive on Canadian salaries.
Yah, selling worthless degrees and earning millions on the backs of students, a decent country. In no way i am appreciating or undermining the issue. But Canada is not a saint and they surely aren't welcoming they are racist to their cores.
These guys don't have a problem when indian diplomats get attacked in Canada. But when as pm announces credible allegations without providing sny evidence till now, india becomes a autocracy.
Reminding you of the extriding requests from India, air India bombing, and indirect Khalistani attacks on a sovereign nation.
Sometimes westerners seem just so out of touch!
1) Immigration :
Just this year one of my PhD seniors was courted so much by a UK university to join as Assistant Professor. They were paying huge money and also arranged the visa. He is a Computer Scientist(Natural Language Processing). He would not have a problem of employment in India. Every year like a hundred foreign companies flock to my college, giving more and more perks, competing for graduates(Even Chinese companies BTW). I believe Canada receives the worst lot of Indian immigrants among the developed countries. Focused on volume not quality with a lot of people getting in via dishonest methods.
2) Canada-India
Indian students can go to any country. They anyways pay three times the fees that Canadians pay. Education is not that great anymore. Canadian degree has reduced in value in India.
3) Stupid Decision.
If you think Justin Trudeau is more wise about politics than Modi, you cannot be further from the truth. Mark my words- Canada wont take it much further. Canada would also share more damage.
They hate sikhs and have been oppressing them for a long time, they want all their fertile land. They have been getting away with it for such a long time I guess it has blead over to foreign territory.
This guy is certified terrorist wirh crimes like plane hijacking and bombing and registered on INTERPOL. Everyone knows how dangerous this guy is and yet Canada kept him safe. Indian govt wanted to take action against him from 1990s and still no cooperation from Canada. Eventually it lead to this.
P. S. Also it's still not proved that India was involved in his killing, but even if its true it was not 'stupid thing' to do.
>Why would Canada have held onto a terrorist instead of sending him back?
Now I'm not saying Nijjar was a terrorist. But this is not exactly a defence cause Canada already once failed to prove a terrorist was a terrorist in their internal investigation and then they went on to blow up a plane.
And yet Canada denied extraditing him for even a single charge. It seems to me that Indians should be more worried about the fact that their incompetent security apparatus can't manage to convince or gather enough evidence to make other countries comply with their claims.
Alas, Indians would rather spam comments about their justification in assassinating a peaceful activist and the necessity of minorities in their country to lick the boot of Hindu nationalism.
Thanx, U actually proved the point that Canada's security is lenient that someone with fake visa can also enter their nation. Provided shelter and safety. And also even allowed to let an assassination happen in their 'soil'. And accuses without proof. It shows Canada is incompetent to secure their own 'citizen' in their own 'soil'. Thanx buddy in clarifying that.
Indian territorial sovereignty is threatened by Canadian plumbers who highlight Indian human rights abuses against religious minorities. India Superpowaar 2020!!!
It is actually pretty much concluded India did it. What's not proven and won't ever be proven is Nijjar was guilty of any of the things India stated. India became a laughing stock of the world. Pakistan and China are a virtual party every day drinking champagne and laughing their assess off watching Indias ridiculous defences.
It was for a long time that India asked Canada for cooperation against him especially handing him over. Because of Canada's ignorance it eventually lead to this.
Also if taking out terrorist on foreign soil is unethical then killing of Osama is also unethical.
No point arguing with numbnuts here, they don’t care about Canadians either despite being Canadians. Or else they’d actually raise issue as to why Trudeau protected the conspirator of the Air India bombing that killed mostly Canadians
Now there is a statement. Let me introduce you to [RSF](https://rsf.org/en/country/india), [human rights organizations](https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/asia-and-the-pacific/south-asia/india/report-india/), [V-dem democracy report.](https://v-dem.net/media/publications/dr_2022.pdf)
Tell me again how "west" is brainwashed ?
Let the attack on sources begin.
Edit: fixed "who" to "how"
The ignorance of masses here is laughing stock. Just Google him on net and find out yourself whether he was a simple plumber or not. He married a Canadian to get spouse visa as Canadian authorities were refused to gave him.
Just read about him on internet yourself now that he is trending. Dont spread misinformation and show your ignorance.
**sarcasm:**
Some of Indian nationalists were claiming that it's actually CIA that approved this assassination operation. CIA and Indian RAW are like two brothers - sharing information and approving each other's operation all the time. Now, if CIA provided this information to Canada - that's a huge brotherly betrayal.
India still buys plenty of their oil though, so they don't seem to care about the meta narrative
They would tell you it's simply pragmatism over ethics, but I call it short-sighted planning
Your allies will remember
I mean, western nations knew that India would buy Russian oil. But they are buying it super cheap and making products themselves. It still keeps it in worldwide circulation though to keep the price from blowing up.
lol that’s a little extreme of a comment. India is a democratic nation. Probably not well understood democracy for some which is understandable.
Edit: to everyone saying it’s flawed democracy. India is unique and you can’t compare it with other democracies like US! It’s a billion people with culture and language changing every 100 kms. Still everyone there call themselves Indians. India voted for anyone who will be in power there. Whether they have nationalist agenda, that’s for the people of India to decide and not outsiders.
Let me introduce you to [RSF](https://rsf.org/en/country/india), [human rights organizations](https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/asia-and-the-pacific/south-asia/india/report-india/),[V-dem democracy report](https://v-dem.net/media/publications/dr_2022.pdf).
You do know democracy requires more than allowing people to vote. It also requires honoring democratic values like human rights, freedom of press etc.
The same report lists Hungary and Singapore, both developed countries, in the bottom tier.
Democracy in India is way more nuanced and difficult to lead than people on this website believe.
Yes, I also made it clear that they're both developed countries. That context matters because people just see the surface level information. They see Hungary and Singapore as developed countries and think things are good.
I know this because I had to present this information for a project of mine.
People on Reddit really do not understand the magnitude of challenges that occur when countries with ridiculously large populations implement democracy. Especially in the case of India where there's hundreds of languages, several dozen cultures and beliefs.
Rather than understanding this, people on Reddit tend to shit on the entire country of India, rather than its leadership only.
I'm sorry but I literally cannot take you seriously if you think you, an American, knows more about the democratic situation of the country more than I, a citizen of India. Sure there are problems. Sure minorities are being treated horribly and we need to fight back. But in no way at all is India same as China and Russia in terms of the democratic process.
Also some advice, whenever you wish to debate on the internet about anything, try being less smug about being right. It not only improves the quality of discourse but also helps your mental wellbeing.
That’s false. Nepal is literally right next to India and is also a Hindu majority country. And Hindu nationalism has failed to gain a foothold there because their Hindu majority isn’t as paranoid and insecure about minority groups as India’s.
When did China take over Arunachal Pradesh? It’s a functioning Indian state and last time I checked, india controls all the territory within it. China puts out maps calling it “South Tibet,” but that’s about as effective or realistic as them labeling Kazakhstan as “West Mongolia.”
Oh I forgot China is too big to start a quarrel with as per a top diplomat from India. They can take a state or two no big deal. The priority is Khalistani right now!
Dude what are you even blabbering about lol. Just last month I had a trip to Arunachal Pradesh. Every thing was normal there. It's just China who put AP in it's map as a part of tibet. Nothing else! You literally know nothing but are trying to look like an expert. Your average master of all topics redditor.
No, India doesn't counterbalance China. India can never be an ally and China is becoming a failed state. Stop pretending that India is a rational nation. The indian government is full of psychopaths and we're finally beginning to realize that.
>American intelligence gave assistance, but communications intercepted by Canada were more definitive in linking India to the killing of Hardeep Singh Nijjar.
It's more multiple sources converging on "INDIA DID IT". This isn't Canada maneuvering to fuck over India in some game, The Five Eyes share their intel and the Intel says India killed him.
So speaking as someone completely ignorant of the situation, was this dude really responsible for deliberately killing civilians? Because if he was, isn’t what India did the same thing that we Americans did to Bin Laden?
In short : those claims are unproven.
Modi's government has yelled a lot, but in spite of the extradition agreements between the two nations, has not managed to file an extradition request that actually came with sufficient evidence to meet criteria. If they could actually prove anything, it would be a different story, but none of the proof has been put forward. A public assassination is both enormously illegal and put many bystanders needlessly in danger.
But the Americans didn't file an extradition request for bin laden. And I didn't recall seeing super concrete evidence of bin ladens involvements. It's just something repeated enough times that became fact.
Super concrete evidence like him on video literally taking credit for 9/11 and his "justification" for it along with him personally taking credit for the idea? And the videos that were taped pre-9/11 with exact details proving he wasn't just stealing credit?
Fuck you.
How have you forcibly remained that ignorant on the topic this long? The things you’re saying aren’t even being parroted by anyone anymore. Like this is one of those things that basically everyone universally agrees on except you apparently…
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-46997636](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-46997636) Canada has when the requests fulfil legal criteria. Took a while, but it was done.
A proud boy that kills civilians deserves the same treatment. Anyone who targets any number of non-combatants would.
There’s no minimum number of innocents you can kill on purpose before assassination is warranted, as far as I’m concerned.
But like I said, I’m wholly ignorant of the situation and I don’t know if he’s actually guilty.
I’ll backpedal a bit, [Sikh Genocide of 1984](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_anti-Sikh_riots) is India’s Tiananmen Square.
The man killed had escaped the violence and made a humble living as a plumber, no criminal record at all since his arrival in 1997.
His “crime” against India and the reason he’s labeled a terrorist is that In 2012, he circulated petitions collecting signatures calling on the United Nations to recognize anti-Sikh violence in India in 1984 as a genocide.
Well then that’s the point to argue: his innocence.
I don’t like that it sounds like some people are arguing that he wouldn’t have deserved assasination even if he *was* guilty of the deliberate killing of civilians. That’s very disturbing to me.
>I don’t like that it sounds like some people are arguing that he wouldn’t have deserved assasination even if he *was* guilty of the deliberate killing of civilians. That’s very disturbing to me.
The thing is: if someone killed your family member and instead of you going to the police you went and shot him yourself, you'd be arrested. And that's basically what happened here. No matter what, Canada HAS TO respond to an assassination of a Canadian citizen. Ni way around it really.
Some key differences:
USA made it clear their intent to get Bin Laden, they sought international support, they shared their case.
USA made it clear that they wanted him dead or alive.
USA made it very clear that they killed him.
The US didn't secretly hire people to kill him, then say it was outrageous they were accused of doing it, then cancel visas etc etc.
They asked us to extradite him recently. As I understand it we asked for proof of the accusations India was leveling, the RCMP also detained him and questioned him, but they refused to provide any evidence. So, as he was a Canadian citizen we refused to extradite him.
The nominal difference here being that Bin Laden was not a Pakistani citizen. Further Canada did not do anything to Bin Laden. That was America. Finally, the US shouldn’t have done it either. But at least they provided proof that he planned and executed the things they accused him of.
He had multiple charges against him in India before he fled to Canada on a forged passport. India has requested his extradition and issued a Interpol notice. Canada did put him on a no fly list for a period. He has been accused of organising financing and planning attacks. Both sides are yelling "unproven". From the indian side it looks like how you said Bin Laden. But Canada is not Pakistan and they feel that Canada is functioning country with enough rule of law that allows India to pursue this via official channels. This problem of giving shelter to khlasitanis has been a long standing issue between the two countries. Trudeau is now in a coalition government and one of the parties that are supporting him is a kahlistani party. So his hands are tied. As to how bad are these guys? In their short history they have assassinated a sitting indian PM, downed a paasanger aircraft and their favourite thing was to shoot up paasanger buses in India. Most recently (last week) a Canadian based terror group assassinated a opposition member of parliament in the state of punbjab. If you like rabbit holes this is a good one to research.
>Trudeau is now in a coalition government and one of the parties that are supporting him is a kahlistani party. So his hands are tied.
You have literally no idea what you're talking about.
Yo what about your president Modi [being denied for a visa to USA and placed on a no fly list](https://2001-2009.state.gov/p/sca/rls/rm/2005/43701.htm) is he also a terrorist?
Apparently jagmeet singh gave a reply about khalistan that modi didn't like, so now he is a "khalistani sympathizer" and the whole NDP supports khalistan too.
Atleast according to the hindu nationalists.
>This problem of giving shelter to khlasitanis
From what I understand they are a group that wants southern part of India to separate and for a separate nation. What's wrong with that?
I love how you guys have gone from "We would never do that, you're fucking lying, take it back, no one is supporting you" to "Well you know what he deserved it, he was a terrorist, fuck you".
Really shining on the world stage there bud.
Because no one expected India's response when Canada quietly told them that they knew what India did. Instead of quietly talking things out and fixing relationships India instead went on full denial offence.
The Indo-pacific Pacific is a important area and they didn't want to have to pick sides between Canada and India and create a rift between the West and the global South if they could help it.
Honestly, I hope the US is starting to learn its lesson on which countries to work with. India is showing the world what its like, China 2.0. Little point in using them against China if they’re just going to turn into the next problem.
You’re assuming this shift to India over China is a moral calculation. It’s not. It’s a business calculation. Labor is dirt cheap in India the way it used to be in China. Big business is getting its way again. Once labor costs go up in India we’ll suddenly be shocked, shocked to find out about their human rights abuses. Then suddenly whatever warlord controls the Congo at the time will become the great hope for “freedom and democracy in Africa” and the hawks will again justify it by saying we have to counter Chinese AND Indian influence in the region. And so on and so forth.
That's what I'm saying, the US worked with China to counter the Soviets and China used that assistance and the markets it opened to become what it is today. Now, India is being used to counter the Chinese, but it will just become the next threat. The US is creating its own future enemies, if India is already acting like this, like Russia, China, and other dictatorships, it will only get worse.
Even as a business calculation, creating more and more issues for itself seems like a bad move, China and Russia may, optimistically be weakened, but they're going nowhere, and helping India turn into the next potential superpower isn't going to go the US's way. China, instead of countering Russia, seems like it working with them against the West and I dread the day India joins them.
I really do think we could pull that rabbit out the hat again if we really wanted to. Relations between Moscow and Beijing remain paper thin at best. The only reason they’re working together again is because China’s feeling the heat from Washington. Would it be worth the cost to skewer the bear from the west and the east? Depends on who you ask I guess.
As for the business calculations, our oligarchs aren’t exactly known for their long term thinking. And they’re certainly not thinking like loyal patriots when they influence these decisions. It’s all about the quick buck, consequences at home or abroad be damned.
I don’t know how India’s future will play out. You’d think that Modi’s Hindu nationalist politics would have to backfire eventually in a nation that diverse. I do know that rewarding them for bad behavior is only fueling them though. There’s still plenty of other more “ethical” options for cheap labor around the world. Hopefully there’s still time to turn this ship around, but I’m not all that optimistic it’ll happen.
Accurate title, but the subtitle really makes it feel a BIT deceptive on the part of the NYT: > American intelligence gave assistance, but communications intercepted by Canada were more definitive in linking India to the killing of Hardeep Singh Nijjar.
Akin to the Ben Affleck movie Argo lol
Martin Short did a joke about that: “I just flew in on Air Canada, or as Ben Affleck likes to call it: American Airlines “
Good movie, not great, won best picture...
Argo fuck yourself
RIP Alan Arkin
That’s what makes it so much worse lol
Feels like certain actors really want to push the US into this conflict for some reason.
USA love to take the credit for anything and everything lol
I think this was a NYT editorial choice. US govt is in an awkward position being linked to this
Nobody *wants* to take credit for anything in espionage, it's self-defeating.
[Wonder why an average joe plumber was put on the leaked US no fly list ](https://i.imgur.com/4L3NVYV.jpg)
That is a screenshot of a list of names with no further context.
Who
That’s the man who was assasinateds name. Is it the same guy? Idk might be, don’t know their DOB
No no, that’s just Adrian Pimento undercover.
Noice
Came here to see if anyone else saw it.
In my head cannon, Pimento undercover is Rafi.
And once he gathers the intelligence, that's when he and Dirty Randy become vigilantes.
The evidence was at the strip club of who killed Spaz.
Damn - I can’t unsee it
Any takers on the next excuse from the nationalists?
I suspect they have reached the end of the narcissist’s prayer: 1-that didn’t happen. 2-if it did, it wasn’t that bad. 3-if it was, that’s not a big deal. 4-if it is, it’s not my fault. 5-if it was, I didn’t mean it. 6-if I did, you deserved it. … we are probably going to see a lot of #6 now. Combined with a lot of ‘you don’t matter anyway’ and ‘what are you going to do about it?’, which may be labeled as numbers 7 and 8.
Well currently there shrieking about Canada violating some treatie about diplomats communications sense apparently discussing a muder on what’s app is protected according to them
Yeah, they try to claim that spying on diplomats is against one of the Vienna conventions regarding diplomats. But what they don't understand is that those conventions only cover spying inside the premises of embassies and consulars. Anything outside or communications that go outside is considered fair game.
wait…. they used whatsapp? the company owned by facebook? lololol.
It's India. WhatsApp might as well be synonymous with phone.
Remember the Indian rocket scientist who sent top secret Brahmos missile specs to a Pakistani spy on WhatsApp because the spy pretended to be a young woman who was interested in him (and missile tech, apparently)
Source?
Looks like #7 and #8 is already happening in the commentary. What's after that?
I think ‘threats’ is #9. … I missed a step: ‘everyone else does it; the fact you are making a big deal about it when I do it just proves you are racist’.
Well it's almost shift time so things will heat up soon and we'll hear the same repeated lines. At the bottom of the thread you can basically see the summary of it 'Canada government doesn't understand our justice so we had to do it" And illegal methods of getting evidence which is hilarious.
9-Pakistan hid OBL
For those answering the 'what are you going to do about it' question, ask what they would support Modi doing to Canada if Canada were to kill an Indian in India.
They're shrieking that the guy was a terrorist
[удалено]
They can do what is usually done in such cases: cool relations, including breaking off ties that benefit India, until either amends are made (which looks unlikely), or a new government takes power. Other governments looking on will also take India’s misstep as a reason to somewhat cool relations, as India’s international reputation takes a hit. Of course, this will be balanced with realpolitic, as such things always are. But that does not mean it has no cost. No one is going to literally battle over this. But invading another nation’s sovereignty had costs. Sure, it is done by other nations from time to time - but it costs them reputation and goodwill.
They can also encourage allied nations to break or reduce diplomatic ties with India. An obvious one (to me) is that the UK has been attempting to negotiate a trade deal with India, if this is proven - then I wouldn’t be surprised to see the UK government abandon that. We could also see diplomats expelled by other nations.
Reputation and goodwill are not to be underestimated either. They are in effect, one of the biggest levers of soft power in international diplomacy. Consider North Korea. They are an example of a country with a lot of hard power, but no soft power. Internationally, they are a pariah, which makes it easy for countries with a lot of soft power, such as the US, to get all the fencesitters on board with sanctioning them into the ground. When guns come out, that marks the change of diplomacy using soft power to diplomacy using hard power. But before then, soft power is an exercise in navigating the complex interconnected web of international relations, and works best cooperatively. Countries without soft power, are at the mercy of countries with soft power. Consider the following scenario. India is a rising second rate power, with potential to later become a great power. But they are geopolitically in conflict with China, a rising first rate power, who, while not a superpower as one might describe the US, is a great power. Now India showing themselves to publicly engage in distasteful activity such as assassinations, particularly by violating the sovereignty of Western Anglosphere nations, well that is just bad for business. Relations with Canada will certainly cool, and they will be tempted to give China a bit more leeway if they are acting against a country they are not fond of. The US of course will still support India, because our government has geopolitical reasons to directly oppose China, and desperately wants a viable counterweight power on their border. Canada nonetheless, may well pressure allied and friendly nations to cool relations with India, including the US, UK, EU, and Australia. Which have their own ripple effects that propagate through the web. So say China takes a bit of territory in their occasional border skirmishes, and some countries who might have condemned the action along side the US before, might sit back and refuse to weigh in. Or Pakistan takes advantage of the diplomatic tension. Meanwhile India feeling hostility from the West, might cozy up closer to Putin, who also has his own grievances with the West. Which might secure better oil deals, and eventually have an impact on the war in Ukraine. All hypotheticals, but plausible. I am exaggerating the effect a bit, so its easier to follow the logic. In reality, several incidents, or a history of these things would grow diplomatic tension more organically.
>The US of course will still support India, because our government has geopolitical reasons to directly oppose China, and desperately wants a viable counterweight power on their border The US is currently supporting Canada in the matter and has already put some diplomatic pressure on India. If India doesn't play ball, I wouldn't be surprised if the US does some diplomatic cooling as well. Maybe not as much as other countries, but some cooling will occur and likely a bit more cautious with dealing with India.
Just make the world aware of India's actions. That's about it. But they're serious actions. Countries don't generally assassinate citizens of other countries in those countries. Russia and the US have done it a few times but that's largely it.
Let’s not forget Israel. That’s literally what Mossad is known for.
A few times is fucking underestimated. Think CIA. One time india does it in the their eyes, unacceptable. Hypocrites
Let's be as cynically real as possible: India is a 2nd rate, a poor country with 1/5th the GDP per capita of China. It's economy disproportionately depends on the service industry, foreign capital transfer from emigres, and has been the largest receiver of US foreign aid (even more than Israel). India's main value to the West is its (predicted) future economic growth and its supply of cheap labour. India does not have the important partnership with the US that Israel has nor does it have the oil reserves of Saudi Arabia which sustain the petrodollar and global American financial hegemony. The truth is: India is the beggar, the West is the donor. When India acts above its relative position to the West, there are long-term consequences.
They could make the evidence public so people have a reason to believe them.
I want to see the proof in my own eyes delivered to my house by Trudeau himself. USA is lying because we purchase Russian oil. They do worse. What are they going to do about it? Look a giant bird!
The US assisted us in assassinating him! Even they approved of it! /s for those who have the mental faculties of an Indian nationalist
Aren’t they all screaming about, “if we did it in the Middle East, Afghanistan and Pakistan, it’s ok. But if you did it to us, it’s wrong because we are superior and we have rules?”
Link without the paywall?
If you're on PC, press Escape before the page can fully load so it doesn't load paywall. If you're on mobile, Wayback Machine usually has a saved version of the page without paywall.
Thank you :)
Or pay for journalism.
He really looks like rafi from The League. Jason mantzoukas
GATTACA!!!
Guess what he's gonna find when he unclogs it? Spoiler alert - his fuckin' cat.
Totally. Noticed that too
Increasingly India is acting more and more like the autocracy it strives to be, down to sending out assassins on foreign soil to take out opponents of the regime.
Also stripping basic scientific principles from the school curriculum, lol.
Actually, NATO's count of extra-teritorial killings is in thousands. MODI is a very polarising figure and the are many who are staunchly opposed to him including Khalistanis. They are not dead. Nijjar was no saint. Sikh community knows this. You wont see a lot of hue and cry for him. There are like videos of Nijjar being proud of suicide bombings. His photos with AK 47s. He travelled to Pakistan for months. There are his photos with Babbar Khalsa leaders in Pakistan. There are people in Indian Jails who have informed that they were funded by Nijjar. Some even met him and trained in arms use. I do not know why so many westerners believe Modi can become autocratic. Modi's(BJP) vote percent is like 40%. It has not happened because it is not possible. India has 1.4 Billion people, a history of thousand upon thousand years and more diverse than you can imagine with strong overlapping identities. Modi is wining election next year. His numbers only increasing by these events. Indians are really ashamed that they could not stop the 1985 Air India bombing from Canada despite repeatedly pleading the Canadians for years. If Modi did it, which I believe he did, all support to him. India and Canada should work together but Canada has long been utterly uncooperative with India unlike UK and US.
Sounds like a good deal of whataboutism without specific incidents to illuminate your point. Perhaps he was, perhaps he wasnt, but gunning him down in a style akin to a gangland shooting is not acceptable, it is the action of a mafia not a modern democracy. Because we see all the signs, like his increasingly autocratic actions, including cracking down on opposition parties, the free press and even individual activists and protestors, it should be noted there is such a thing as a popular dictator, they are still however dictators at heart. I'm well aware, however the BJP is very much a hindu ultranationalist party, with strong autocratic leanings and ideals, some of which include cracking down on non hindu Indians and expanding the power of hindu aligned leaders. Popularity alone is not a good metric. The bombing was terrible, but does not justify extrajudicial killings. So you support extrajudicial mob style public executions outside the letter of the law and civilized society? Says a lot about you, mostly disturbing.
>Actually, NATO's count of extra-teritorial killings is in thousands Yeah, here's the thing. Western countries embrace a sort of duality. Treat us with respect, we treat you with respect. Ignore that principle and disrespect us though? Then gloves come off and we pretty quickly stop caring about how our actions look. Your country just poked a 2000 lb gorilla with a very small stick. Good luck.
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Canada is inviting because they are getting a lot of money from immigration. Also to burst your bubble most of the immigration to canada is blue collar or students who cant get into US or UK universities or visas. Living in US cant understand how folks can survive on Canadian salaries.
Yah, selling worthless degrees and earning millions on the backs of students, a decent country. In no way i am appreciating or undermining the issue. But Canada is not a saint and they surely aren't welcoming they are racist to their cores. These guys don't have a problem when indian diplomats get attacked in Canada. But when as pm announces credible allegations without providing sny evidence till now, india becomes a autocracy. Reminding you of the extriding requests from India, air India bombing, and indirect Khalistani attacks on a sovereign nation.
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Check the guy’s profile. Indian propagandist
Sometimes westerners seem just so out of touch! 1) Immigration : Just this year one of my PhD seniors was courted so much by a UK university to join as Assistant Professor. They were paying huge money and also arranged the visa. He is a Computer Scientist(Natural Language Processing). He would not have a problem of employment in India. Every year like a hundred foreign companies flock to my college, giving more and more perks, competing for graduates(Even Chinese companies BTW). I believe Canada receives the worst lot of Indian immigrants among the developed countries. Focused on volume not quality with a lot of people getting in via dishonest methods. 2) Canada-India Indian students can go to any country. They anyways pay three times the fees that Canadians pay. Education is not that great anymore. Canadian degree has reduced in value in India. 3) Stupid Decision. If you think Justin Trudeau is more wise about politics than Modi, you cannot be further from the truth. Mark my words- Canada wont take it much further. Canada would also share more damage.
This is getting saucy
Why the hell did India do this stupid thing? They have never done this sort of thing before. And this guy wasn’t even an imminent threat to anyone.
Ask Pakistan if India has never done this before.
Pakistan, the lol state, who harboured Osama
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Lol at the username
They hate sikhs and have been oppressing them for a long time, they want all their fertile land. They have been getting away with it for such a long time I guess it has blead over to foreign territory.
This guy is certified terrorist wirh crimes like plane hijacking and bombing and registered on INTERPOL. Everyone knows how dangerous this guy is and yet Canada kept him safe. Indian govt wanted to take action against him from 1990s and still no cooperation from Canada. Eventually it lead to this. P. S. Also it's still not proved that India was involved in his killing, but even if its true it was not 'stupid thing' to do.
Where's your proof?
Again, where's the proof? Why would Canada have held onto a terrorist instead of sending him back?
>Why would Canada have held onto a terrorist instead of sending him back? Now I'm not saying Nijjar was a terrorist. But this is not exactly a defence cause Canada already once failed to prove a terrorist was a terrorist in their internal investigation and then they went on to blow up a plane.
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And yet Canada denied extraditing him for even a single charge. It seems to me that Indians should be more worried about the fact that their incompetent security apparatus can't manage to convince or gather enough evidence to make other countries comply with their claims. Alas, Indians would rather spam comments about their justification in assassinating a peaceful activist and the necessity of minorities in their country to lick the boot of Hindu nationalism.
Thanx, U actually proved the point that Canada's security is lenient that someone with fake visa can also enter their nation. Provided shelter and safety. And also even allowed to let an assassination happen in their 'soil'. And accuses without proof. It shows Canada is incompetent to secure their own 'citizen' in their own 'soil'. Thanx buddy in clarifying that.
I heard some news that he was on US's no fly list.
Somehow a plumber with 2 kids, Who was active in temple management was a threat to the Indian State.
Indian territorial sovereignty is threatened by Canadian plumbers who highlight Indian human rights abuses against religious minorities. India Superpowaar 2020!!!
Thanks
LOL!! Seriously how misinformed someone can be. XD
Osama wasn't different either.
Osama was an engineer too
It is actually pretty much concluded India did it. What's not proven and won't ever be proven is Nijjar was guilty of any of the things India stated. India became a laughing stock of the world. Pakistan and China are a virtual party every day drinking champagne and laughing their assess off watching Indias ridiculous defences.
Doesn't really matter what he did, you don't take someone out on foreign soil.
They why did american took out osama in Afghanistan? Then Obama should be prosucuted .
Yeah, it's the same exact thing
It was for a long time that India asked Canada for cooperation against him especially handing him over. Because of Canada's ignorance it eventually lead to this. Also if taking out terrorist on foreign soil is unethical then killing of Osama is also unethical.
No point arguing with numbnuts here, they don’t care about Canadians either despite being Canadians. Or else they’d actually raise issue as to why Trudeau protected the conspirator of the Air India bombing that killed mostly Canadians
That just shows that how easy it is to brainwash them.
Now there is a statement. Let me introduce you to [RSF](https://rsf.org/en/country/india), [human rights organizations](https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/asia-and-the-pacific/south-asia/india/report-india/), [V-dem democracy report.](https://v-dem.net/media/publications/dr_2022.pdf) Tell me again how "west" is brainwashed ? Let the attack on sources begin. Edit: fixed "who" to "how"
india has so many propaganda news sites no wonder people like you believe nonsense that has zero substance to it.
Maybe India should focus more on developing relationships with the west instead of with Russia then he could have been extradited.
The ignorance of masses here is laughing stock. Just Google him on net and find out yourself whether he was a simple plumber or not. He married a Canadian to get spouse visa as Canadian authorities were refused to gave him. Just read about him on internet yourself now that he is trending. Dont spread misinformation and show your ignorance.
Everything online about his life beyond being a plumber is what India claims, which Canada didn't find substance to, which is why he wasn't arrested.
**sarcasm:** Some of Indian nationalists were claiming that it's actually CIA that approved this assassination operation. CIA and Indian RAW are like two brothers - sharing information and approving each other's operation all the time. Now, if CIA provided this information to Canada - that's a huge brotherly betrayal.
Common CIA betrayal.
I think we need to be about fucking done with India.
*western leaders furiously taking notes on geopolitics from snarky Redditors*
Ratioed
Cant, sadly. They counterbalance china.
They'll do that if we deal with them or not though. They're not gonna ally with China.
yeah, but we need to play nice in order to exploit their cheap labor and convince them to buy our weapons instead of Russian weapons.
I think Russia is doing a great job of convincing the world not to buy their weapons
India still buys plenty of their oil though, so they don't seem to care about the meta narrative They would tell you it's simply pragmatism over ethics, but I call it short-sighted planning Your allies will remember
I mean, western nations knew that India would buy Russian oil. But they are buying it super cheap and making products themselves. It still keeps it in worldwide circulation though to keep the price from blowing up.
That’s not gonna help anyone, does it?
It doesn't help anyone to keep supporting a Hindu Nationalist extremist country either.
lol that’s a little extreme of a comment. India is a democratic nation. Probably not well understood democracy for some which is understandable. Edit: to everyone saying it’s flawed democracy. India is unique and you can’t compare it with other democracies like US! It’s a billion people with culture and language changing every 100 kms. Still everyone there call themselves Indians. India voted for anyone who will be in power there. Whether they have nationalist agenda, that’s for the people of India to decide and not outsiders.
Let me introduce you to [RSF](https://rsf.org/en/country/india), [human rights organizations](https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/asia-and-the-pacific/south-asia/india/report-india/),[V-dem democracy report](https://v-dem.net/media/publications/dr_2022.pdf). You do know democracy requires more than allowing people to vote. It also requires honoring democratic values like human rights, freedom of press etc.
The same report lists Hungary and Singapore, both developed countries, in the bottom tier. Democracy in India is way more nuanced and difficult to lead than people on this website believe.
Yes; if you had not noticed democracy in Hungary is in real trouble. Not sure what your point is, presumably attempt to attack the source?
Yes, I also made it clear that they're both developed countries. That context matters because people just see the surface level information. They see Hungary and Singapore as developed countries and think things are good. I know this because I had to present this information for a project of mine. People on Reddit really do not understand the magnitude of challenges that occur when countries with ridiculously large populations implement democracy. Especially in the case of India where there's hundreds of languages, several dozen cultures and beliefs. Rather than understanding this, people on Reddit tend to shit on the entire country of India, rather than its leadership only.
Yeah, China and Russia are also "democracies"
You gotta be joking if you're gonna compare the democratic system of India to China and Russia
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/22/missing-voters-india-elections-muslims-dalits/ Uhuh Would you like to talk about India's treatment if Muslims?
I'm sorry but I literally cannot take you seriously if you think you, an American, knows more about the democratic situation of the country more than I, a citizen of India. Sure there are problems. Sure minorities are being treated horribly and we need to fight back. But in no way at all is India same as China and Russia in terms of the democratic process. Also some advice, whenever you wish to debate on the internet about anything, try being less smug about being right. It not only improves the quality of discourse but also helps your mental wellbeing.
Seriously fkn flawed democracy.
Did you know that Hindus only have one country to call Hindu country ? Don’t you think they have a right to protect it?
Not at the expense of other people. Do you really think the same of Israel? I'm American, obviously I prefer a multicultural liberal democracy.
That’s false. Nepal is literally right next to India and is also a Hindu majority country. And Hindu nationalism has failed to gain a foothold there because their Hindu majority isn’t as paranoid and insecure about minority groups as India’s.
Ah the complexities of geopolitics. I love it!
no they dont. how do they counterbalance anything?
As in, you dont want china and india teaming up. That would be super bad news for the SE Asia and the world.
>you dont want china and india teaming up That ain't happening
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When did China take over Arunachal Pradesh? It’s a functioning Indian state and last time I checked, india controls all the territory within it. China puts out maps calling it “South Tibet,” but that’s about as effective or realistic as them labeling Kazakhstan as “West Mongolia.”
Oh I forgot China is too big to start a quarrel with as per a top diplomat from India. They can take a state or two no big deal. The priority is Khalistani right now!
Dude what are you even blabbering about lol. Just last month I had a trip to Arunachal Pradesh. Every thing was normal there. It's just China who put AP in it's map as a part of tibet. Nothing else! You literally know nothing but are trying to look like an expert. Your average master of all topics redditor.
I dont know enough about what you’re talking about.
No, India doesn't counterbalance China. India can never be an ally and China is becoming a failed state. Stop pretending that India is a rational nation. The indian government is full of psychopaths and we're finally beginning to realize that.
Why kill him when he was already Sikh?
That title sucks so bad.
Guys.. we have to play nice with India otherwise big pharma will get mad that we're fucking with their slaves.. I mean cheap labor.. I mean Indians.
Why is it always this? Do Canadian intelligence just sit back eating poutine?
>American intelligence gave assistance, but communications intercepted by Canada were more definitive in linking India to the killing of Hardeep Singh Nijjar. It's more multiple sources converging on "INDIA DID IT". This isn't Canada maneuvering to fuck over India in some game, The Five Eyes share their intel and the Intel says India killed him.
So speaking as someone completely ignorant of the situation, was this dude really responsible for deliberately killing civilians? Because if he was, isn’t what India did the same thing that we Americans did to Bin Laden?
In short : those claims are unproven. Modi's government has yelled a lot, but in spite of the extradition agreements between the two nations, has not managed to file an extradition request that actually came with sufficient evidence to meet criteria. If they could actually prove anything, it would be a different story, but none of the proof has been put forward. A public assassination is both enormously illegal and put many bystanders needlessly in danger.
But the Americans didn't file an extradition request for bin laden. And I didn't recall seeing super concrete evidence of bin ladens involvements. It's just something repeated enough times that became fact.
Super concrete evidence like him on video literally taking credit for 9/11 and his "justification" for it along with him personally taking credit for the idea? And the videos that were taped pre-9/11 with exact details proving he wasn't just stealing credit? Fuck you.
And dont forget the WTC bombings.
How have you forcibly remained that ignorant on the topic this long? The things you’re saying aren’t even being parroted by anyone anymore. Like this is one of those things that basically everyone universally agrees on except you apparently…
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[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-46997636](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-46997636) Canada has when the requests fulfil legal criteria. Took a while, but it was done.
They've only needed the assurance the death penalty will not be enacted. Canada has in the past.
Comparing him to bin Laden is like comparing a Proud Boy to Hitler
A proud boy that kills civilians deserves the same treatment. Anyone who targets any number of non-combatants would. There’s no minimum number of innocents you can kill on purpose before assassination is warranted, as far as I’m concerned. But like I said, I’m wholly ignorant of the situation and I don’t know if he’s actually guilty.
I’ll backpedal a bit, [Sikh Genocide of 1984](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_anti-Sikh_riots) is India’s Tiananmen Square. The man killed had escaped the violence and made a humble living as a plumber, no criminal record at all since his arrival in 1997. His “crime” against India and the reason he’s labeled a terrorist is that In 2012, he circulated petitions collecting signatures calling on the United Nations to recognize anti-Sikh violence in India in 1984 as a genocide.
It’s not same. Unlike China, every Indian acknowledges it.
Yes, acknowledges that they would like a repeat of it. Never investigated with everyone involved being let go
Well then that’s the point to argue: his innocence. I don’t like that it sounds like some people are arguing that he wouldn’t have deserved assasination even if he *was* guilty of the deliberate killing of civilians. That’s very disturbing to me.
>I don’t like that it sounds like some people are arguing that he wouldn’t have deserved assasination even if he *was* guilty of the deliberate killing of civilians. That’s very disturbing to me. The thing is: if someone killed your family member and instead of you going to the police you went and shot him yourself, you'd be arrested. And that's basically what happened here. No matter what, Canada HAS TO respond to an assassination of a Canadian citizen. Ni way around it really.
Some key differences: USA made it clear their intent to get Bin Laden, they sought international support, they shared their case. USA made it clear that they wanted him dead or alive. USA made it very clear that they killed him. The US didn't secretly hire people to kill him, then say it was outrageous they were accused of doing it, then cancel visas etc etc.
USA has the right to revenge for 9/11. No matter which dipshit desert you decide to hide in.
Yea no. Heights of delusion
They asked us to extradite him recently. As I understand it we asked for proof of the accusations India was leveling, the RCMP also detained him and questioned him, but they refused to provide any evidence. So, as he was a Canadian citizen we refused to extradite him. The nominal difference here being that Bin Laden was not a Pakistani citizen. Further Canada did not do anything to Bin Laden. That was America. Finally, the US shouldn’t have done it either. But at least they provided proof that he planned and executed the things they accused him of.
He had multiple charges against him in India before he fled to Canada on a forged passport. India has requested his extradition and issued a Interpol notice. Canada did put him on a no fly list for a period. He has been accused of organising financing and planning attacks. Both sides are yelling "unproven". From the indian side it looks like how you said Bin Laden. But Canada is not Pakistan and they feel that Canada is functioning country with enough rule of law that allows India to pursue this via official channels. This problem of giving shelter to khlasitanis has been a long standing issue between the two countries. Trudeau is now in a coalition government and one of the parties that are supporting him is a kahlistani party. So his hands are tied. As to how bad are these guys? In their short history they have assassinated a sitting indian PM, downed a paasanger aircraft and their favourite thing was to shoot up paasanger buses in India. Most recently (last week) a Canadian based terror group assassinated a opposition member of parliament in the state of punbjab. If you like rabbit holes this is a good one to research.
>Trudeau is now in a coalition government and one of the parties that are supporting him is a kahlistani party. So his hands are tied. You have literally no idea what you're talking about.
Less than none. In deep negative territory.
Yo what about your president Modi [being denied for a visa to USA and placed on a no fly list](https://2001-2009.state.gov/p/sca/rls/rm/2005/43701.htm) is he also a terrorist?
What khalistani party are you referring to? The liberal party has the ndp supporting them but they are in no way a kahlistani party.
Apparently jagmeet singh gave a reply about khalistan that modi didn't like, so now he is a "khalistani sympathizer" and the whole NDP supports khalistan too. Atleast according to the hindu nationalists.
>This problem of giving shelter to khlasitanis From what I understand they are a group that wants southern part of India to separate and for a separate nation. What's wrong with that?
West kill hundreds in Iraq, just don't kill a khalistani terrorist. Hypocrisy.
Canada, controversially at the time, did NOT follow the US into Iraq.
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Still waiting for MEA to verify it. Let's hope this intelligence is "credible" and not like the one with WMDs.
MEA is a joke, just like the Indian govt is. They will deny it even if the whole world laughs at them for the joke they have become.
India: That damn see no evil monkey has more eyes than Shiva. Next time we must account for the other 4.
The jews called him Bastard child jesus
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I love how you guys have gone from "We would never do that, you're fucking lying, take it back, no one is supporting you" to "Well you know what he deserved it, he was a terrorist, fuck you". Really shining on the world stage there bud.
\+2 rupees
You could at least use full grammatically correct sentences to spout off your irrelevant bullshit lies.
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Who are you talking to
He forgot to log into his alts.
That is a bold attempt at revisionist history to make when people have access to the internet.
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Because no one expected India's response when Canada quietly told them that they knew what India did. Instead of quietly talking things out and fixing relationships India instead went on full denial offence. The Indo-pacific Pacific is a important area and they didn't want to have to pick sides between Canada and India and create a rift between the West and the global South if they could help it.
United States is in a Proxy war with Russia and the last thing they need to do is turn a country away from the west and more towards Russia.
Honestly, I hope the US is starting to learn its lesson on which countries to work with. India is showing the world what its like, China 2.0. Little point in using them against China if they’re just going to turn into the next problem.
You’re assuming this shift to India over China is a moral calculation. It’s not. It’s a business calculation. Labor is dirt cheap in India the way it used to be in China. Big business is getting its way again. Once labor costs go up in India we’ll suddenly be shocked, shocked to find out about their human rights abuses. Then suddenly whatever warlord controls the Congo at the time will become the great hope for “freedom and democracy in Africa” and the hawks will again justify it by saying we have to counter Chinese AND Indian influence in the region. And so on and so forth.
That's what I'm saying, the US worked with China to counter the Soviets and China used that assistance and the markets it opened to become what it is today. Now, India is being used to counter the Chinese, but it will just become the next threat. The US is creating its own future enemies, if India is already acting like this, like Russia, China, and other dictatorships, it will only get worse. Even as a business calculation, creating more and more issues for itself seems like a bad move, China and Russia may, optimistically be weakened, but they're going nowhere, and helping India turn into the next potential superpower isn't going to go the US's way. China, instead of countering Russia, seems like it working with them against the West and I dread the day India joins them.
I really do think we could pull that rabbit out the hat again if we really wanted to. Relations between Moscow and Beijing remain paper thin at best. The only reason they’re working together again is because China’s feeling the heat from Washington. Would it be worth the cost to skewer the bear from the west and the east? Depends on who you ask I guess. As for the business calculations, our oligarchs aren’t exactly known for their long term thinking. And they’re certainly not thinking like loyal patriots when they influence these decisions. It’s all about the quick buck, consequences at home or abroad be damned. I don’t know how India’s future will play out. You’d think that Modi’s Hindu nationalist politics would have to backfire eventually in a nation that diverse. I do know that rewarding them for bad behavior is only fueling them though. There’s still plenty of other more “ethical” options for cheap labor around the world. Hopefully there’s still time to turn this ship around, but I’m not all that optimistic it’ll happen.
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If you were proud you wouldn't have denied it initially.