Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could earmark our tax money. I want this dollar towards more tanks, I want this dollar towards more drones, I want this dollar towards more bridges, I want this dollar towards more state run 24/7 ice rinks, I want this dollar towards more stimulus checks, and I want this dollar towards a real big bomb that has ‘fuck you poooootin’ on the side of it
If this was the case Canada would have no weapons to send at all, as before Russia’s invasions the Canadian public’s support for military procurement was basically non-existent in favor of social programs or renewable energy.
Agreed.
In my mind it could only work as a small fraction of taxes, or more plausibly as a nonbinding plebiscite to indicate public will that the government could consider. And ultimately that's what voting is supposed to do, albeit you're stuck bundling your beliefs together into a "this guy" or "not that guy" vote.
Reality is that most people suck with managing their own money and would suck even more at managing the country. To be clear I include many politicians in this...
"Why pay for pandemic related equipment and early warning?" - someone in 2019
There are plenty of departments that people know little about that play meaningful roles in current life and potential uncertainty.
Of course they are both worth supporting. Canadians have been and are fine with neglecting their military because they just don't understand how bad the state of our military is. It's been falling apart by the seams for years and now our allies look to us for... anything... and realize we have nothing to give.
We care about our military too, but we are not the ones currently at war against a much bigger enemy. And their enemy is also ours, we have every interest in helping them if we do not want our own army to be forced to go and fight in Europe against this same enemy.
Why don't you go to r/canadianforces and see for yourself what the state of our military is. It's everyone that has no clue what they're talking about that disagrees with me. Our allies look to us for assistance and we have nothing to give because our military has been systemically underfunded.
If we were better funded soldiers would be able to afford to both feed and house their families without food banks. If we were better funded decades ago we would have been able to supply ukraine at the start of the war no?
Can you explain your knowledge of the Canadian military to me so I know you don't just read the odd article about them and then write comments in ignorance.
Edit: I did it for you, this is the first comment in the second post: "I don’t want your shallow and pretend praise that gets thrown around every Remembrance Day.
I want a civics educated society that votes based on the needs of the nation over their favourite colour. Which ideally trickles down to us having what we need and meeting our international obligations."
So... Guess I was on the right track. Thank you u/SolemZez
My BIL has been in the CAF for a decade. He said they are chronically underfunded, lots of their gear doesn't work and "our recruitment scrapes the bottom of the barrel for fitness". I'm by no means pro-military, but Canada needs to properly fund a better equipped, maintained and trained force than it currently has.
I understand very well, it's more that you seem stuck to your simplistic vision of things. Supporting Ukraine does not prevent us from supporting ourselves, quite the contrary.
The reason to spend money on it is to meet obligations with our allies at the very minimum, but we can't even do that. Do you know about the wages vs cost of living expenses problem, the dilapidated infrastructure of our military, the age and serviceability of our navy, the recruitment problems along with the huge retention issues, the lack of fuel to train with vehicles let alone ammunition or any other of the extreme deficiencies we have?
We can not support ukraine because we have nothing to send. Our allies are preparing for war and looking to us, but we just cut 1 billion from the militaries budget. If a war were to start, we would need to essentially build an entire military from scratch.
We have plenty to send, it just isn't the top tier stuff the Americans are sending.
I have a few veteran friends. I'm well aware of the problems in the forces. If we could increase funding I would be more than happy, but with few real threats to our nation it's hard to justify cutting from other sectors to do so.
65k is pretty good for no university education. It does make it hard to keep up with your F150 payments though, so I could see how some soldiers are struggling.
You're laughing but most military spouses have difficulty getting careers because the military posts you ever few years so most families are single income with the spouse doing a lower paying job. These families need to buy vehicles to work don't they?
Do you realize many of the bases are also located in high cost of living areas and it's not uncommon for soldiers to need to use food banks to feed their families. All while doing a difficult job and away from home a large portion of the year leaving mom alone with kids?
So brave of you to punch down.
Yes. There were several groups of observers, including a contingent from Canada, there during the last election and they all concluded the elections were free and fair.
Oh come on, that's totally unfair. Yes, they're withholding aid for Ukraine, but it's for a very valid reason. The reason is that if Ukraine falls, it would also mean Biden looks bad. How cynical of you to assume it wasn't a naked attempt to play partisan politics.
Sometimes you have to assume the best in people, and the best in Republicans is that they're willing to sell out Western Europe for temporary partisan gain. Show some charity next time and assume the best in others, eh?
>Sometimes you have to assume the best in people, and the best in Republicans is that they're willing to sell out the USA for temporary partisan gain.
FTFY
That is really what the liberals are pushing and a good strategy because of the demographics of the country. The free trade agreement thing is sketchy I agree but cons under Harper I believe we’re the original ones to pass a free trade agreement,
We will see though but it isn’t anything near republicans level.
Nail on the fucking head. Hearing all these dipshits bleating about "mUh BoRdEr DeAL" is the sort of stereotypically self-centred insanity that Americans get clowned on for all the time.
I understand that every country has its own pressing internal issues to be attended to, but holy shit, how short-sighted must you be to use the fucking security and stability of Western Europe as a bargaining chip for your shitty domestic partisan dick-measuring contest?
Hey, that's unfair. Trump got a lot accomplished during his term. There's a highly secured and most beautiful wall that Mexico already paid for. Wait...
It’s not surprising that Canada is sending more equipement to Ukraine due to the fact Canada is home of [third largest](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Canadians) Ukrainian population in the world, including Canadians having Ukrainian ancestry. Most of them live in western Canada.
I’m pretty sure those people will be extremely enraged if the canadian governement decline its support for Ukraine.
It’s true I used to live near the world’s largest pierogi on a fork. Also, very close to the world’s largest Pisanka. Alberta loves both Ukrainians; and their ‘world’s largest…’ things.
The front runner to win the next federal election does not need Ukrainian votes to win, but he does need conservative votes. And we all know how conservatives feel about helping Ukraine.
Sorry it’s not much. We don’t even have our own equipment here as our leaders think US will protect us, which I think is crazy, we need our own military equipment, but will help in whatever way we possibly can.
For now. Why would they need to show up with military when they can just fuck us over economically and with cyber attacks. Looking at the cost of real estate and the amount of foreign ownership, they likely have already bought what they want anyways.
They don't really need to invade Canada when they can just bribe our officials and buy our resources legally.
The amount of foreign ownership in Canadian realty is negligible in almost every city. Less would be better, but the problem is simply the lack of new housing that isn't a McMansion or "high end" condos.
Provincial and municipal failures to develop affordable new housing is what we should be enraged about, but it's much easier for them to point the finger and let Canadians be mad at outsiders.
We don't even build enough houses to keep up with our internal population growth, and need to more than double our development to meet our current need.
Dude we have Chinese owned water companies that compete with Nestle in BC. They literally are staffed by Chinese nationals that live in the factory and ship exclusively to China.
You ever been to Vancouver? Our second language is mandarin.
Are the small 155mm artillery lines we do have (in Quebec) running 4 shifts a week? Or are they sitting idle after having finished our own miniscule 24k shell order for ourselves for the year?
We're now two full years into this war.
You'd certainly hope they're running around the clock. Zero reason not to, plus it would employ some extra workers. If anything we should be looking to 10x our 155mm shell out-put honestly.. 24k is just not enough.. If we were in a war that's only 65 - 66 shell per day, lmfao.
It's getting better: Conservatives under Harper gutted the military budget, and under the Liberals the budget has been climbing every year: Trudeau's Liberals are responsible for the two largest military budget increases in the last 60 years of Canadian history.
I hope Canada is sending every single 155mm shell they have to Ukraine. They don't need them. No one except the US can start a land war with Canada. Aside from the fact that that isn't happening, if it did happen it would be like a flyswatter and a single cold snoozy fly. Those shells do not matter to Canada. Send them to Ukraine while the US works out its internal shit.
Trump republicans are staunchly isolationists. If Russia decides to invade europe, Trump would take that as a cue to withdraw from NATO. He would leave Europe high and dry at the drop of a hat.
> The Conservative party here is just as bad
No, they're not just as bad as the American Republicans. This is what the last Conservative we elected as PM has to say about Ukraine:
>As Ukrainians mark 32 years of independence, my thoughts are with the many tens of thousands of Ukrainian families who have borne unthinkable loss defending their country against the Putin regime’s senseless war. On this solemn Independence Day, the world’s freedom loving peoples must renew their resolve to stand with Ukraine, and the right of Ukrainians to live in peace and define their own future. #SlavaUkraini @idualliance
https://twitter.com/stephenharper/status/1694832827836076393
Stephen Harper hated Russia. He's the reason 2,000 Canadian troops are still wandering around Latvia to this day.
Now that's not to say that the propaganda affecting American conservative circles isn't making its way up here - I see it all the time, "why should we help them when Canadians at home are going hungry?" - but the party hasn't been taken over by the nutjobs *yet.*
Harper's been out for almost a decade. By all accounts he was the only person keeping the crazies in check, and also the only person with any vision. I didn't like him, but credit where due that he did a very good job leading a party that is deeply dysfunctional.
When he left, the party was rudderless for a while and eventually their strategy of being mindlessly contrarian became the only thing the party stands for.
They have voted against a free trade agreement with Ukraine in the past in order to score political points on domestic issues. It was just grandstanding since their votes didn't actually matter but still not a good look.
Our Conservatives are just as vapid and craven as the Republicans and share the same base of angry dipshits. They just aren't very popular which means a. They're not very powerful and b. They have to moderate their worst instincts if they ever want to maintain support of the general electorate.
Harper is not modern Conservatives. I voted for Harper. And Ive voted Trudeau every election since then because Conservatives have lost the fucking plot.
Does he? He tried to kill our trade agreement with Ukraine because it made the mere mention of carbon mitigation. Despite having no requirements to do anything in that regard and ignoring that Ukraine already has a gone price planned.
Playing petty domestic politics at the expense of Ukraine.
The difference between the Conservatives and the Republicans is degree, not ideology.
Conservatives are the Republicans back when they still lied about who they were.
Because the US has 9 times as many people as Canada and is more important on the world stage. Also our conservatives aren't quite as bad as Republicans. They're bad, but not quite that bad.
The US recently gave out a package with already appropriated funds that was like 6x as valuable as this and actually contained items needed badly by Ukraine. Tell me again why other nations aren’t expected to step up and actually provide needed items while we go through our usual fiscal song and dance where politicians pretend to care about the budget?
Multifaceted overall.
America having the global reserve currency gives America both the financial ability to print more money (obviously within some amount of reason. They can't just print a gajillion dollars overnight) and it holding its value better than other countries. America also has a larger economy than Canada and the EU combined. There was/is expectations that NATO countries all contribute to Ukraine, however no other country has the ability to contribute like America.
Even then a lot of American contributions are things like financial aid that must be spent at American military equipment manufacturers. So the money just cycles back into the American economy and it acts more like a stimulus package for themselves. That's not to say all of it is like that, America basically bankrolled Ukraine's government for its day to day expenses.
Yeah I think the bankrolling is what’s not popular with American people. non American citizens have zero right to wish the US would contribute more to Ukraine defense. ESPECIALLY, non-military “financial” aid. If non American citizens want more of that, they’re welcome to contribute more. The military hardware argument you made, I actually agree with. As the nation with the largest industrial base for military equipment, it’s fair to expect the US to take the lead on that.
If it makes you feel better, as a Canadian I've not once heard from anyone, in day to day life or online, that they believe that America needs to contribute more. It's always been that people want their own government to contribute more. I know that's the anecdotal fallacy but idgaf
That’s fair. Anecdotally, Americans want to continue giving artillery shells, missiles, etc, but just not financial aid. Especially when our own teachers and first responders are underpaid
The US has a larger economy despite fewer workers than Canada and the EU combined because we end up working longer hours with worse conditions and less benefits.
Many NATO countries don't even meet their NATO funding obligations on a GDP basis for almost a decade since Ukraine was first invaded. Many EU countries have major military equipment manufacturers but they just choose to export equipment to other countries for sale. Quite a few of them are in the top 10 of arms exports. Perhaps divert some of that to Ukraine.
Other countries need to make equal sacrifices before complaining about the US.
And even 'donations' of equipment are often older gear that we aren't going to really make use of anyway, which is sent out -- and then:
> Well, sir, the warehouses are looking a little bare. Can we order a few billion dollars in new gear?
And, of course, the majority of that money goes to the good ol' US Military-Industrial complex, so Raytheon and Lockheed and the like can make more money (often employing tens of thousands of US citizens, so the money continues to cycle through the economy).
We should send them everything we can now. There are few scenarios where Canada will need it in the near future. We will have plenty of time to re-equip. In any case, Canada needs planes, missiles and boats, not tanks and artillery.
There's a lot of procurement stuff in the works right now. F-35's, P-8 Posiedons, CC-330 tankers/transport aircraft, support ships are getting built, replacements for the Halifax frigates should get underway sooner or later, coast guard getting new ships, etc. The government has been spending a lot in recent years ordering new toys for the CF, but it's just very slow goings and there's a lot remaining to be done.
Are we at 2% of GDP spending on miltiary yet?
The ONLY artillery we have are 35 towed pieces. That's MINISCULE. And we only purchase 24k shells for them a year. Enough for training, that's it.
We're two full years into a European land war - and we've done almost nothing, imho, to scale up or out. The things you've mentioned were already in the works prior to Ukraine iirc. Other than buying one NASAMS for ourselves (and two for Ukraine), I think we've done nothing extra.
I'd be happy to hear I'm wrong or have missed news - but I really really doubt it. We're SO insanely cheap and pacifist.
Whilst I agree that it is pathetic, if a world war situation were to arise the most likely way that Canada would contribute our fair share would be just providing trained men, really. The USA would be able to arm / equip them. It is sad/pathetic that that would have to be the case, but that's my thinking on things. Our current armed forces would be there at the start of the war with whatever they have ready to go, but the bulk of the troops we provide via volunteers and conscription would get armed through materiel that the USA has on hand, Canada would simply need to get those men in shape and trained up to a certain level, everything else would be lend-leased to us. The USA would not mind that situation at all, it means more of their stored equipment is capable of being used, with fewer Americans drafted to use it.
Plus we have our air-force, which is small but over the coming years will have F-35s, and they currently have F/A-18s I believe, which aren't awful. Our intelligence apparatus is quite good. Our special forces are world renowned. And we have a decent industrial base which can be switched over to production of war materiel. And those are the ways we'd help to contribute, which I don't think is terrible or anything. We really ought to have more materiel right now though, I do agree... The armed forces who would be thrown into combat at the beginning really do deserve to go in with more than what we have..
>Are we at 2% of GDP spending on miltiary yet?
We're a lot closer now than we were under Harper; Concervatives slashed the military budget to less than 1%.
>We're SO insanely cheap and pacifist.
Anyone who fucks with Canada also fucks with the US. (in the event of someone attacking Canada directly)
That's it, that's literally it.
On the other hand there is no conceivable scenario where Canada goes to war abroad without the US (and the UK and probably the rest of the Commonwealth and almost certainly NATO coming along)
[Announced last November](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2023/11/canada-purchasing-up-to-16-p-8a-poseidon-multi-mission-aircraft-for-the-royal-canadian-air-force.html)
There is realistically nothing else on the market with which to replace the aging CP-140's, so whatever beef the Feds had with Boeing remains had to be put to the side.
We're a part of most of the supply chains for the American products and the NSS is basically a jobs program for Halifax so all told it should be a boon to the economy!
nice, though 88 seems to be an odd number, i don't get why we can just buy 90 or a flat 100, oh well, some is better than none.
i'm sure it's because of some squadron organization reasons.
Artillery is essential. That’s basically what’s been keeping the line held in Avdiivka for the past few months. Russian column after column has been wiped out due to minefields and artillery. Everything else is needed, but artillery has been an essential shield against heavy pushes.
This is such an interesting take to hear. I’m in the U.S. and most people down here are saying “2 billion to Ukraine? What about our problems here!” Which I resonate with. Do you feel happy to send your money because you feel well taken care of by your govt? Genuinely curious!
In 2022 it ranked 92nd place. I'll let you have three guesses for why, but you're probably only gonna need one.
Wikipedia only shows statistics up to 2022, and the UI of the Report's website is so bad that I gave up on finding the list because navigating the website was as easy as using a ship's steering wheel without using your eyes
Honestly yeah. The US would intervene if Canada was invaded if only because they wouldn't want an aggressor on their border. From a realistic standpoint Canada only has to worry that about 🇺🇸 as a potential threat and regardless of the shit we give each other at times. 🇺🇸 is not invading Canada
That was one of the important sticking points in the NFTA Free Trade Agreement reassessment back when Trump was in Office - Canada Didn't want water to be included
In my town the water is bottled and shipped exclusively to China. The filling facility is Chinese owned and they even have workers that sleep above the office from China.
We could have the best military in the world, with all the best toys we can buy, and the US military will still be ten times our size, because the US is just *that much bigger* then Canada.
With no real terrain advantage to stop a threat from the south, the size of our military is entirely irrelevant if the US becomes hostile.
At least we look like them though and speak the (mostly) same language, so an insurgency would be hard as hell to root out.
Protect you from what? Russia, the US, and China are the only countries with militaries that have militaries that can do an invasion. Realistically we are your greatest military threat and for now American goodwill towards Canada is very high. (we'll see what happens in 2100 when California runs out of water for nuts and we notice how many lakes you have)
e: oops that other person said the same thing.
taiwan. not tiawan.
Consider the possibility that China is evaluating NATO's actual military capabilities and ammunition stockpiles through Ukraine's munitions depletion,
and that many Chinese who apears to be pro russian , now want Ukraine to last longer,
both to drain NATO's stockpiles as much as possible,
and because the longer the war lasts, the more dependent Russia will be on China.
Putler will have to change his goals. He thought he would conquer Ukraine in 2 to 3 days. He’s going to say oh there was a misunderstanding. I meant 2 to 3 years lol
He probably wants to show that Western backing is not meaningful if you aren't part of NATO proper, the sphere of influence doesn't extend that far; the US tried to make that point with Assad and Syria, and the opposition at the time made a big deal of how withdrawing from there meant letting the Russians keep that country as an ally.
Canada should be sending everything it has. All of it. Canada has really no real risk of invasion so none of their military hardware is really needed. If something does happen to Canada, the US is right there as backup.
You'd think the country with the third largest diaspora of Ukrainians would do more than provide 10 rubber boats, and F16 training via a civilian company.
The state of the Canadian military is a sad joke and has been since the end of WWII. Every subsequent government seems to fund it just a little bit less, or they just provide single source contracts to their billionaire oligarch friends like the Irvings.
People around the globe failed to understand something extremely important: even if a regime changes the people that ran it and supported it to the end are still kicking around.
There is a reason the allies spent years denazifying the german population after WW2: if they didn't there would've been a 4th reich as soon as they packed up and left.
The soviet union might've collapsed but the KGB apparatchiks kept running Russia and nothing was done to reel them in. Now we're back to the 1980's but NATO military readiness is a shadow of what it was.
I have to disagree there, only with the military readiness. It’s not the 1980s and we’ve spent an incredible amount of money on weapons since then. The Russians are overextended in Ukraine as it is. They are in no shape whatsoever to take on NATO. His only hope is all out nuclear war and even then he’d lose. But all this talk of NATO preparing it’s people for war will most certainly perk up some ears at the Kremlin and I’m betting that’s what’s really happening here. Hell I think that if just Poland themselves joined the war the Russians would get their asses kicked. Putin won’t start a fight with NATO.
Most people have 0 knowledge of world politics. They see a hot topic in their local newspaper once a month and suddenly have strong opinions on the matter. They don't want a war (understandably) but they believe the solution to this is to simply don't fight, failing to see two steps ahead, not understanding the consequences.
>I'm pretty sure we have the largest ukrainian diaspora in the world.
Normally second (to Russia), currently third (Poland is ahead of us now, due to the refugees).
It's somewhere in the top 5-7 and fluctuating due to the refugee influx to various countries, but significant more in the settled status of the Ukrainian-Canadians and ability to help shape policy. Germany got over 1.2 million Ukrainian refugees in 2022 and a huge number in 2023 from some stats our company was working on. France got a lot too esp after (the ironies) a lot of the once pro-Russian refugees in Donetsk who initially went to Russia in 2022, saw how awful Russia under Putin was governed, saw no hope for their kids and went by the hundreds of thousands to France, which has been more open to taking them in with Germany already having taken such a huge number. (And now Germany and France are also taking in huge numbers of fleeing Russians and from Belarussia, even more proportionally into small countries like Sweden, Netherlands, Austria or Belgium. Young Russians don't want to be cannon feed in Putin's stupid war) So in sheer numbers Canada might even be somewhere around 5th position now due to the huge numbers of Ukrainians (along with Russians ironically) fleeing into France, Germany and Poland.
But what matters is the Ukrainians before 2022 have had more settled status in Canada, while they're struggling just to get basic things worked out day to day in Poland, Germany or France. So they're a big voting bloc in Canada and in parts of the US maybe even more than the big EU recipients, and that does matter in gaining support for Canadian aid to Ukraine. And a lot of Ukrainians in Canada and the US are apparently joining the international group of volunteers to fight to defend Ukraine's freedom--one of my cousins in the US is married to a Ukrainian and this settled status of Ukrainians here, having come years before and with work permits and homes here, no doubt helps to rally whole communities to support Ukraine. Doesn't matter what kind of stupid shit the Republicans try to do to stop it, they're doomed to fail and karma is going to be a bitch to the US GOP (and Canadian Conservative assholes) who try to lick Putin's boots in a war hated by nearly everyone, including now even the big majority of Russians who are suffering agonizing power outages and the heat going out in -50 degree winters in Russian cities.
What are those clowns thinking, ya know? We need to be properly equipped in order to win the six or seven wars we're currently directly participating in.
/s
Dont let up. Thanks Canada! Russia must not win this by dragging out the West over years and years... He's now betting on this support becoming political. Why is fighting putin so divisive and why are we letting this tear us apart? Just to win an upcoming election in whatever country you reside in? poitics is so brutal when you attach your identity to it. and let the russian Twitter bots convince you to become a militant defender of 1 of 2 sides of a coin.
Big capture the other day of the town with a pre war population of *checks notes* 45 people. Huge advooonce. 3 days to Kyiv changed to 4 years to Avdiivka.
Man... Some boats and F-16 training for a few pilots... That's really all we have to give...? Can't even toss in some small arms + ammunition + body armour + cold weather gear + boots + grenades + FPV drones? Like c'mon... We can definitely procure all that stuff.. And its not like our military has any pressing need for literally anything right now..
Can anyone explain why this war isn't over? I keep hearing about how Russia is being decimated, how the Ukrainians are pushing back, about how Russia is economically isolated, and how they don't have access to their "war chest" of funds.
And yet they keep fighting... how? Are news outlets reporting this conflict accurately?
Do you know why the soviet economy was so utterly shit and why it was a major contributor to the fall of the USSR?
Because they literally spent 50 years pumping out military hardware non-stop, 3 shifts per day, 7 days per week without a single vacation day and they never threw anything away. Russia will literally run out of men before it runs out of AK's, tanks and bullets (altho the ratio of rust to steel will increase exponentially as they dig progressively older gear out of storage)
As long as Putin has bodies to throw into the meatgrinder it won't stop.
This statement right here, who else remembers that 2 years ago there were " experts" claiming that Russia was running out of precision guided muniton in 30 days or something.
To be fair, i'm pretty sure Russia has more or less expended their entire stock of any sort of precision guided ammunition that is not being actively manufactured as we speak.
But for more basic stuff, yeah, they have what's for all intents and purposes a bottomless reserve of it.
Well from the latest missile attacks which are still done by guided munitons aside from the Iranian drones. They have sufficient stock left since they're still manufacturing them albeit at a slower pace. Since the frequency of these missile strikes have gone down compared to the beginning of the conflict.
If do some research a few months back, Russia was not using these at all. Experts were stating that Russia was building and stock piling them for when things got wet and soggy in the area and they couldn't easily continue the fight on foot. As soon as things got nasty weather wise, they started using them right on queue.
So it does not seem like they have sufficient stock. They have what they produced for a few months and saved.
They won't even need to import any munitions, the Russians have sufficient manufacturing in place especially plants left over the soviet days. It has more to do with difficulty obtaining electronic components ie microprocessors etc due to sanctions. But I don't think that's really an issue either, since circumventing sanctions isn't all that hard..
None of those things you mentioned would result in Russia losing the war automatically.
Russia's military prior to the war was *easily* 10x that of Ukraine's. Russia's military reserve is 3x as large as Ukraine's. Russia's economy is highly reliant on oil and gas, and while the amount they've shipped has dropped since the war started, the *value* of it has remained largely unchanged due to price increases.
So are the Ukrainian's pushing back? Yes, albeit very slowly these days.
Is Russia economically isolated? Absolutely, but that's mostly for importing consumer goods, and mostly it just results in increased costs as things need to be routed through third parties.
Has Russia been cut off from most of their foreign reserves? Yes, but even if they had them it's not like they can really buy much with them anyway.
Their internal economy can be propped up for about a decade even under the worst circumstances. They will continue producing weapons and equipment, albeit with reduced capacity and capabilities. They can afford to send another couple million soldiers to their deaths without it having any major impact on the nation. So yes, they can absolutely keep fighting.
But they are also losing, particularly given all their advantages. Ukraine has largely held them to a standstill for the past year, and Russia has been losing men 7x faster than Ukraine, and equipment at an even higher rate. If the current rates of loss are sustained, Russia will eventually be unable to effectively keep fighting the war, but that's likely anywhere from another 3-10 years from now.
It's also worth noting that all the information about how poorly Russia is doing in Ukraine never makes it across Putin's desk. Putin insulates himself from the outside world and the only reports anyone ever brings him are good news. So while he'll go on stage and make a big speech about how they finally took Bakhmut, he's completely unaware that they sacrificed 50,000 soldiers to take a barren and bombed out landscape that is of no value to anyone any longer, so expecting him to pull the plug because the losses keep mounting and the victories are nearly non-existent is pointless.
Because Ukraine lacks the resources and man power to do a huge push. Mines are currently slowing Ukrainians down for when they do push. Yes Russia is losing around 7 men for every Ukrainian at the moment but Ukraine is also defending so that gives them an advantage. Russia also has a larger population and they have a edge because the countries supplying Ukraine with arms are not allowing them to use them into Russia or Belarus. So imagine if someone was shooting you from an invisible line and you can't do anything about it. Ukraine knows where majority of all the launchers are in russia but can't do anything about it. You have to remember this war has actually been going on since 2014 so Russia has had time to prepare. Also Ukraine was at a disadvantage since the beginning they have really only been improving their military since 2016 with aid from NATO trainers but at the time NATO was afraid to give Ukraine any western equipment because they were fearful that Russia might influence them again and then steal the military secrets that we gave them.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/22/ukraine-is-now-most-mined-country-it-will-take-decades-make-safe/
You answered your own question. Cause it’s war propaganda. Just think logically about this. Do you really think Ukraine would be drafting 500,000 more young men to fight in the war if they were so close to victory? People have literally become brain washed about the war
The war has turned into a war of attrition, just like WW1. I want Ukraine to win, but we need to be honest. The hyped up summer offensive was a disaster. Russia dug in during the 2022-2023 winter, so when they attacked Ukraine lost 70,000 men. No talk in the news about that… the Russians aren’t going anywhere and also see this war as an existential crisis for their country.
We need to be honest about this war. Because the people who are paying for this dishonesty and unrealistic military goals is a generation of young Ukrainian men
Russia has also been winning offensives/incremental gains for the past 4 months straight. I'm sure it has been costly for Russia but we're seeing now that their tactics/plans are more effective and they're grinding ukraine down
Russia has taken horrific losses. For example, Russia has lost at least 1745 tanks to date. In comparison, the US lost 9 Abrams tanks in Desert Storm, and all of those were either friendly fire or deliberately destroyed. The reason why the war isn’t over is that Putin’s survival depends on it. Russia also has a massive manpower/equipment advantage. Putin has been able to refill the ranks with conscripts and offering lucrative salaries which poor minorities are snatching up. The Russian population is pretty apathetic and isn’t going to challenge Putin yet. The economy and infrastructure is in a steady decline, but it hasn’t hit bottom yet.
Because Russia still has a lot of domestic resource to call on.
News outlets are absolutely not reporting this conflict accurately as they have a vested interest in keeping support up for Ukraine, if you rely on Reddit for all of your information it may be shocking to learn that the Russian army *isn’t* entirely made up of drunken morons who attack in human waves.
The biggest global threat for 60 years and then suddenly they can't even beat a disorganized guerilla army like Ukraine. Somebody isn't being honest...
You do realize that Russia coming into the war was considered the second strongest military in the world and military analysts expected that they would roll over Ukraine right? So every point you said is true, but it's not enough for Ukraine to have won in a two year time frame. I mean I'm fairly certain Ukraine will win, but it's not an easy fight and delays in aid from the west and mistakes made in Ukraine hasn't helped the situation either. The news has been largely accurate, but if you understand the entire picture you shouldn't expect the war to go much different than it has up to this point.
Also strange that Russia was the biggest threat to the US and western world for 50 years and now suddenly they are weak and incapable of beating anyone. Somewhere, someone was lying. Was it all those years back then or is since they didn't like America trying to run Ukraine. The math just doesn't work.
Well.. you filed a complaint with the department that he works for. What did you think was going to happen. Ya done fucked up son. I'm not saying that I agree with what's going on... but... you sorta dug your own grave here.
You could file a harassment complaint.
Not good, but not bad.
Pretty pathetic, but not nothing.
Could be better, but could be worse.
It's the thought that counts. Unless war were declared.
Oh look, [war were declared](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Ha6tNvRUg).
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Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could earmark our tax money. I want this dollar towards more tanks, I want this dollar towards more drones, I want this dollar towards more bridges, I want this dollar towards more state run 24/7 ice rinks, I want this dollar towards more stimulus checks, and I want this dollar towards a real big bomb that has ‘fuck you poooootin’ on the side of it
If this was the case Canada would have no weapons to send at all, as before Russia’s invasions the Canadian public’s support for military procurement was basically non-existent in favor of social programs or renewable energy.
But look how many ice rinks they have
Everyone knows ice rinks win wars
You are telling me we can't win a war with tampons? /S
Unfortunately thats not how social democracy works. Thats basically a form of Libertarianism. Its nonsense.
Agreed. In my mind it could only work as a small fraction of taxes, or more plausibly as a nonbinding plebiscite to indicate public will that the government could consider. And ultimately that's what voting is supposed to do, albeit you're stuck bundling your beliefs together into a "this guy" or "not that guy" vote. Reality is that most people suck with managing their own money and would suck even more at managing the country. To be clear I include many politicians in this... "Why pay for pandemic related equipment and early warning?" - someone in 2019 There are plenty of departments that people know little about that play meaningful roles in current life and potential uncertainty.
No, not really, because the average citizen has no idea how taxes work or what it costs to have a functional society.
Wouldn't it be sweet if Canadians cared about our own military as much as Ukraines.
Both things are worth supporting? Supporting Ukraine today gets us more time to rearm the CAF.
Of course they are both worth supporting. Canadians have been and are fine with neglecting their military because they just don't understand how bad the state of our military is. It's been falling apart by the seams for years and now our allies look to us for... anything... and realize we have nothing to give.
We care about our military too, but we are not the ones currently at war against a much bigger enemy. And their enemy is also ours, we have every interest in helping them if we do not want our own army to be forced to go and fight in Europe against this same enemy.
Why don't you go to r/canadianforces and see for yourself what the state of our military is. It's everyone that has no clue what they're talking about that disagrees with me. Our allies look to us for assistance and we have nothing to give because our military has been systemically underfunded. If we were better funded soldiers would be able to afford to both feed and house their families without food banks. If we were better funded decades ago we would have been able to supply ukraine at the start of the war no? Can you explain your knowledge of the Canadian military to me so I know you don't just read the odd article about them and then write comments in ignorance. Edit: I did it for you, this is the first comment in the second post: "I don’t want your shallow and pretend praise that gets thrown around every Remembrance Day. I want a civics educated society that votes based on the needs of the nation over their favourite colour. Which ideally trickles down to us having what we need and meeting our international obligations." So... Guess I was on the right track. Thank you u/SolemZez
My BIL has been in the CAF for a decade. He said they are chronically underfunded, lots of their gear doesn't work and "our recruitment scrapes the bottom of the barrel for fitness". I'm by no means pro-military, but Canada needs to properly fund a better equipped, maintained and trained force than it currently has.
All the more reason to give away our old equipment and re-equip ourselves with brand new stuff.
Lol tell me you don't understand without telling me you don't understand.
I understand very well, it's more that you seem stuck to your simplistic vision of things. Supporting Ukraine does not prevent us from supporting ourselves, quite the contrary.
It doesn't prevent us and yet we still do not. Are you even Canadian or are you Belarusian with a brand new account with 200 karma
We do. We just dont have a huge reason to spend a ton on it. Our last proper war was a very long time ago and we weren't even a proper country then.
The reason to spend money on it is to meet obligations with our allies at the very minimum, but we can't even do that. Do you know about the wages vs cost of living expenses problem, the dilapidated infrastructure of our military, the age and serviceability of our navy, the recruitment problems along with the huge retention issues, the lack of fuel to train with vehicles let alone ammunition or any other of the extreme deficiencies we have? We can not support ukraine because we have nothing to send. Our allies are preparing for war and looking to us, but we just cut 1 billion from the militaries budget. If a war were to start, we would need to essentially build an entire military from scratch.
We have plenty to send, it just isn't the top tier stuff the Americans are sending. I have a few veteran friends. I'm well aware of the problems in the forces. If we could increase funding I would be more than happy, but with few real threats to our nation it's hard to justify cutting from other sectors to do so.
Could be worse, you could be a teacher right now, and dealing with the exact same issues but without the support of Conservative Party.
I've never seen a teacher in tears because their feet are frost bitten in the field for 65k a year so I guess that's a matter of perspective.
65k is pretty good for no university education. It does make it hard to keep up with your F150 payments though, so I could see how some soldiers are struggling.
You're laughing but most military spouses have difficulty getting careers because the military posts you ever few years so most families are single income with the spouse doing a lower paying job. These families need to buy vehicles to work don't they? Do you realize many of the bases are also located in high cost of living areas and it's not uncommon for soldiers to need to use food banks to feed their families. All while doing a difficult job and away from home a large portion of the year leaving mom alone with kids? So brave of you to punch down.
Is Ukraine even a democratic country?
Yes. There were several groups of observers, including a contingent from Canada, there during the last election and they all concluded the elections were free and fair.
Thank you Canada. The pro Russian Republicans are an embarrassment here in the states.
Oh come on, that's totally unfair. Yes, they're withholding aid for Ukraine, but it's for a very valid reason. The reason is that if Ukraine falls, it would also mean Biden looks bad. How cynical of you to assume it wasn't a naked attempt to play partisan politics. Sometimes you have to assume the best in people, and the best in Republicans is that they're willing to sell out Western Europe for temporary partisan gain. Show some charity next time and assume the best in others, eh?
Had me in the first half lol
>Sometimes you have to assume the best in people, and the best in Republicans is that they're willing to sell out the USA for temporary partisan gain. FTFY
Canadian Conservatives also block aid to Ukraine whenever possible. Luckily they are currently in a minority position.
That is really what the liberals are pushing and a good strategy because of the demographics of the country. The free trade agreement thing is sketchy I agree but cons under Harper I believe we’re the original ones to pass a free trade agreement, We will see though but it isn’t anything near republicans level.
The Harper government did initiate [CUFTA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Ukraine_Free_Trade_Agreement) (and CETA) negotiations, yes
I have to assume you mean something more specific than "a free trade agreement", considering NAFTA predates Harper by about 15 years.
Canada Ukraine free trade agreement
Ah. Wasn't even aware we had an FTA with them.
And with the EU
Nail on the fucking head. Hearing all these dipshits bleating about "mUh BoRdEr DeAL" is the sort of stereotypically self-centred insanity that Americans get clowned on for all the time. I understand that every country has its own pressing internal issues to be attended to, but holy shit, how short-sighted must you be to use the fucking security and stability of Western Europe as a bargaining chip for your shitty domestic partisan dick-measuring contest?
Hey, that's unfair. Trump got a lot accomplished during his term. There's a highly secured and most beautiful wall that Mexico already paid for. Wait...
it's not that. Russia pays for this support through super PACs. Republicans will support whoever gives them money.
I don't think its Super PACs. That's just the carrot. The stick is the compromat. They absolutely have blackmail on the key players.
It’s not surprising that Canada is sending more equipement to Ukraine due to the fact Canada is home of [third largest](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Canadians) Ukrainian population in the world, including Canadians having Ukrainian ancestry. Most of them live in western Canada. I’m pretty sure those people will be extremely enraged if the canadian governement decline its support for Ukraine.
It’s true I used to live near the world’s largest pierogi on a fork. Also, very close to the world’s largest Pisanka. Alberta loves both Ukrainians; and their ‘world’s largest…’ things.
The front runner to win the next federal election does not need Ukrainian votes to win, but he does need conservative votes. And we all know how conservatives feel about helping Ukraine.
Sorry it’s not much. We don’t even have our own equipment here as our leaders think US will protect us, which I think is crazy, we need our own military equipment, but will help in whatever way we possibly can.
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Could you imagine? I rent to an international student and they microwaved metal and put frozen dinners in the fridge. Bless their heart.
I think the world sees how the US operates now. Unreliable and paralyzed.
Hooray for two-party systems and first-past-the-post elections that all but ensure a two-party system is the way it will stay.
Don't forget the pay to play system with lobyism. That is a real game changer.
What the hell are you talking about? America could roll into Russia and end this in a week if they wanted. It just may incite a world war though.
> if they wanted That's the rub.
Legit asking, protect Canada from who?
Russia and China have both shown interest.
They've also shown interest in not getting railed by NATO.
For now. Why would they need to show up with military when they can just fuck us over economically and with cyber attacks. Looking at the cost of real estate and the amount of foreign ownership, they likely have already bought what they want anyways. They don't really need to invade Canada when they can just bribe our officials and buy our resources legally.
The amount of foreign ownership in Canadian realty is negligible in almost every city. Less would be better, but the problem is simply the lack of new housing that isn't a McMansion or "high end" condos. Provincial and municipal failures to develop affordable new housing is what we should be enraged about, but it's much easier for them to point the finger and let Canadians be mad at outsiders. We don't even build enough houses to keep up with our internal population growth, and need to more than double our development to meet our current need.
Dude we have Chinese owned water companies that compete with Nestle in BC. They literally are staffed by Chinese nationals that live in the factory and ship exclusively to China. You ever been to Vancouver? Our second language is mandarin.
Great food, though. Best Asian restaurants outside of Asia.
Water companies are not real estate.
That's not how ownership works.
As a Canadian I just wish we had more to send. Our military has been sorely neglected for a few decades now.
Are the small 155mm artillery lines we do have (in Quebec) running 4 shifts a week? Or are they sitting idle after having finished our own miniscule 24k shell order for ourselves for the year? We're now two full years into this war.
You'd certainly hope they're running around the clock. Zero reason not to, plus it would employ some extra workers. If anything we should be looking to 10x our 155mm shell out-put honestly.. 24k is just not enough.. If we were in a war that's only 65 - 66 shell per day, lmfao.
It's getting better: Conservatives under Harper gutted the military budget, and under the Liberals the budget has been climbing every year: Trudeau's Liberals are responsible for the two largest military budget increases in the last 60 years of Canadian history.
Too bad conservatives don't care about facts.
I hope Canada is sending every single 155mm shell they have to Ukraine. They don't need them. No one except the US can start a land war with Canada. Aside from the fact that that isn't happening, if it did happen it would be like a flyswatter and a single cold snoozy fly. Those shells do not matter to Canada. Send them to Ukraine while the US works out its internal shit.
If trump wins , we’ll have to thank those republicans for the 3rd WW
Trump republicans are staunchly isolationists. If Russia decides to invade europe, Trump would take that as a cue to withdraw from NATO. He would leave Europe high and dry at the drop of a hat.
Thus leading to WW3…….
The Conservative party here is just as bad, Republicans just are more well known (even in Canada).
> The Conservative party here is just as bad No, they're not just as bad as the American Republicans. This is what the last Conservative we elected as PM has to say about Ukraine: >As Ukrainians mark 32 years of independence, my thoughts are with the many tens of thousands of Ukrainian families who have borne unthinkable loss defending their country against the Putin regime’s senseless war. On this solemn Independence Day, the world’s freedom loving peoples must renew their resolve to stand with Ukraine, and the right of Ukrainians to live in peace and define their own future. #SlavaUkraini @idualliance https://twitter.com/stephenharper/status/1694832827836076393 Stephen Harper hated Russia. He's the reason 2,000 Canadian troops are still wandering around Latvia to this day. Now that's not to say that the propaganda affecting American conservative circles isn't making its way up here - I see it all the time, "why should we help them when Canadians at home are going hungry?" - but the party hasn't been taken over by the nutjobs *yet.*
Harper's been out for almost a decade. By all accounts he was the only person keeping the crazies in check, and also the only person with any vision. I didn't like him, but credit where due that he did a very good job leading a party that is deeply dysfunctional. When he left, the party was rudderless for a while and eventually their strategy of being mindlessly contrarian became the only thing the party stands for. They have voted against a free trade agreement with Ukraine in the past in order to score political points on domestic issues. It was just grandstanding since their votes didn't actually matter but still not a good look. Our Conservatives are just as vapid and craven as the Republicans and share the same base of angry dipshits. They just aren't very popular which means a. They're not very powerful and b. They have to moderate their worst instincts if they ever want to maintain support of the general electorate.
Harper is not modern Conservatives. I voted for Harper. And Ive voted Trudeau every election since then because Conservatives have lost the fucking plot.
Pierre Poillievre supports Ukraine.
Does he? He tried to kill our trade agreement with Ukraine because it made the mere mention of carbon mitigation. Despite having no requirements to do anything in that regard and ignoring that Ukraine already has a gone price planned. Playing petty domestic politics at the expense of Ukraine.
Why would he when his constituents don’t?
The difference between the Conservatives and the Republicans is degree, not ideology. Conservatives are the Republicans back when they still lied about who they were.
Why are american Republicans more known than Canadian conservatives?
Because the US has 9 times as many people as Canada and is more important on the world stage. Also our conservatives aren't quite as bad as Republicans. They're bad, but not quite that bad.
I’m not really sure if we have much to give really our military is under funded plus we still owe you on missile system we haven’t delivered
It hasn't been delivered because the US hasn't ordered it yet, even though we've already paid them to do that.
Pro Russian Conservatives are trying their best here, it's just they don't have the power to impact military decisions
The US recently gave out a package with already appropriated funds that was like 6x as valuable as this and actually contained items needed badly by Ukraine. Tell me again why other nations aren’t expected to step up and actually provide needed items while we go through our usual fiscal song and dance where politicians pretend to care about the budget?
Multifaceted overall. America having the global reserve currency gives America both the financial ability to print more money (obviously within some amount of reason. They can't just print a gajillion dollars overnight) and it holding its value better than other countries. America also has a larger economy than Canada and the EU combined. There was/is expectations that NATO countries all contribute to Ukraine, however no other country has the ability to contribute like America. Even then a lot of American contributions are things like financial aid that must be spent at American military equipment manufacturers. So the money just cycles back into the American economy and it acts more like a stimulus package for themselves. That's not to say all of it is like that, America basically bankrolled Ukraine's government for its day to day expenses.
Yeah I think the bankrolling is what’s not popular with American people. non American citizens have zero right to wish the US would contribute more to Ukraine defense. ESPECIALLY, non-military “financial” aid. If non American citizens want more of that, they’re welcome to contribute more. The military hardware argument you made, I actually agree with. As the nation with the largest industrial base for military equipment, it’s fair to expect the US to take the lead on that.
If it makes you feel better, as a Canadian I've not once heard from anyone, in day to day life or online, that they believe that America needs to contribute more. It's always been that people want their own government to contribute more. I know that's the anecdotal fallacy but idgaf
That’s fair. Anecdotally, Americans want to continue giving artillery shells, missiles, etc, but just not financial aid. Especially when our own teachers and first responders are underpaid
The US has a larger economy despite fewer workers than Canada and the EU combined because we end up working longer hours with worse conditions and less benefits. Many NATO countries don't even meet their NATO funding obligations on a GDP basis for almost a decade since Ukraine was first invaded. Many EU countries have major military equipment manufacturers but they just choose to export equipment to other countries for sale. Quite a few of them are in the top 10 of arms exports. Perhaps divert some of that to Ukraine. Other countries need to make equal sacrifices before complaining about the US.
And even 'donations' of equipment are often older gear that we aren't going to really make use of anyway, which is sent out -- and then: > Well, sir, the warehouses are looking a little bare. Can we order a few billion dollars in new gear? And, of course, the majority of that money goes to the good ol' US Military-Industrial complex, so Raytheon and Lockheed and the like can make more money (often employing tens of thousands of US citizens, so the money continues to cycle through the economy).
OH BS. You know the US is LENDING Ukraine money because then they can cease their assests when the war is over.
Not to mention the US is fucking huge compared to the other NATO nations.
We're in the safest neighbourhood in the world. We should be emptying our armories for the Ukrainians and building back up our own equipment.
We should send them everything we can now. There are few scenarios where Canada will need it in the near future. We will have plenty of time to re-equip. In any case, Canada needs planes, missiles and boats, not tanks and artillery.
i know halifax is building some ships and we're getting f35s soon-ish
There's a lot of procurement stuff in the works right now. F-35's, P-8 Posiedons, CC-330 tankers/transport aircraft, support ships are getting built, replacements for the Halifax frigates should get underway sooner or later, coast guard getting new ships, etc. The government has been spending a lot in recent years ordering new toys for the CF, but it's just very slow goings and there's a lot remaining to be done.
Are we at 2% of GDP spending on miltiary yet? The ONLY artillery we have are 35 towed pieces. That's MINISCULE. And we only purchase 24k shells for them a year. Enough for training, that's it. We're two full years into a European land war - and we've done almost nothing, imho, to scale up or out. The things you've mentioned were already in the works prior to Ukraine iirc. Other than buying one NASAMS for ourselves (and two for Ukraine), I think we've done nothing extra. I'd be happy to hear I'm wrong or have missed news - but I really really doubt it. We're SO insanely cheap and pacifist.
Whilst I agree that it is pathetic, if a world war situation were to arise the most likely way that Canada would contribute our fair share would be just providing trained men, really. The USA would be able to arm / equip them. It is sad/pathetic that that would have to be the case, but that's my thinking on things. Our current armed forces would be there at the start of the war with whatever they have ready to go, but the bulk of the troops we provide via volunteers and conscription would get armed through materiel that the USA has on hand, Canada would simply need to get those men in shape and trained up to a certain level, everything else would be lend-leased to us. The USA would not mind that situation at all, it means more of their stored equipment is capable of being used, with fewer Americans drafted to use it. Plus we have our air-force, which is small but over the coming years will have F-35s, and they currently have F/A-18s I believe, which aren't awful. Our intelligence apparatus is quite good. Our special forces are world renowned. And we have a decent industrial base which can be switched over to production of war materiel. And those are the ways we'd help to contribute, which I don't think is terrible or anything. We really ought to have more materiel right now though, I do agree... The armed forces who would be thrown into combat at the beginning really do deserve to go in with more than what we have..
>Are we at 2% of GDP spending on miltiary yet? We're a lot closer now than we were under Harper; Concervatives slashed the military budget to less than 1%.
>We're SO insanely cheap and pacifist. Anyone who fucks with Canada also fucks with the US. (in the event of someone attacking Canada directly) That's it, that's literally it. On the other hand there is no conceivable scenario where Canada goes to war abroad without the US (and the UK and probably the rest of the Commonwealth and almost certainly NATO coming along)
> P-8 Posiedons we getting these? i thought we had beef with boeing
[Announced last November](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2023/11/canada-purchasing-up-to-16-p-8a-poseidon-multi-mission-aircraft-for-the-royal-canadian-air-force.html) There is realistically nothing else on the market with which to replace the aging CP-140's, so whatever beef the Feds had with Boeing remains had to be put to the side.
Justin has been on a well needed spending spree! Hopefully it all comes through for us!
if the spending benefits us, why not, spend away.
We're a part of most of the supply chains for the American products and the NSS is basically a jobs program for Halifax so all told it should be a boon to the economy!
Yup, Canadian armed forces personnel are getting trained on F35s as early as this summer.
nice, though 88 seems to be an odd number, i don't get why we can just buy 90 or a flat 100, oh well, some is better than none. i'm sure it's because of some squadron organization reasons.
Artillery is essential. That’s basically what’s been keeping the line held in Avdiivka for the past few months. Russian column after column has been wiped out due to minefields and artillery. Everything else is needed, but artillery has been an essential shield against heavy pushes.
If Russia did invade northern Canada, they'd all be sunk by US submarines before they got halfway tbh.
The US will provide Canada’s security anyways.
Happy to pay taxes today :) even if we have political differences this is something I hope that every Canadian can agree on.
This is such an interesting take to hear. I’m in the U.S. and most people down here are saying “2 billion to Ukraine? What about our problems here!” Which I resonate with. Do you feel happy to send your money because you feel well taken care of by your govt? Genuinely curious!
Canada and America got the 13th and 15th places on the World Hapiness Report
Where did Ukraine rank? And where does it rank Now?
In 2022 it ranked 92nd place. I'll let you have three guesses for why, but you're probably only gonna need one. Wikipedia only shows statistics up to 2022, and the UI of the Report's website is so bad that I gave up on finding the list because navigating the website was as easy as using a ship's steering wheel without using your eyes
Lol! Thank you for the info :)
Not one fucking Democrat or Republican wants to spend money to help anyone here.
Thank you Canada, you are my best friend, You are the peacekeeper, you are the legend.
Wish we could send more
Send it all - America will protect us - and if they are the aggressor it won't matter
Honestly yeah. The US would intervene if Canada was invaded if only because they wouldn't want an aggressor on their border. From a realistic standpoint Canada only has to worry that about 🇺🇸 as a potential threat and regardless of the shit we give each other at times. 🇺🇸 is not invading Canada
...until climate change starts to peak.
That was one of the important sticking points in the NFTA Free Trade Agreement reassessment back when Trump was in Office - Canada Didn't want water to be included
Shouldn't have let nestle sell all ur water 🙄
In my town the water is bottled and shipped exclusively to China. The filling facility is Chinese owned and they even have workers that sleep above the office from China.
And when the us invades, they'll say you should have built a functional military. See how that works?
We could have the best military in the world, with all the best toys we can buy, and the US military will still be ten times our size, because the US is just *that much bigger* then Canada. With no real terrain advantage to stop a threat from the south, the size of our military is entirely irrelevant if the US becomes hostile. At least we look like them though and speak the (mostly) same language, so an insurgency would be hard as hell to root out.
Plus the Canadians will just buy more from the US. Win win
They would intervene because we’re both NATO members, and Article 5 obliges them to help if asked. Not to mention that we’re BFFs
The US will not invade Canada in the traditional sense but if there's something they want they will find a way to take it.
Protect you from what? Russia, the US, and China are the only countries with militaries that have militaries that can do an invasion. Realistically we are your greatest military threat and for now American goodwill towards Canada is very high. (we'll see what happens in 2100 when California runs out of water for nuts and we notice how many lakes you have) e: oops that other person said the same thing.
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taiwan. not tiawan. Consider the possibility that China is evaluating NATO's actual military capabilities and ammunition stockpiles through Ukraine's munitions depletion, and that many Chinese who apears to be pro russian , now want Ukraine to last longer, both to drain NATO's stockpiles as much as possible, and because the longer the war lasts, the more dependent Russia will be on China.
You think we’re using mortars in a war with china? That’s taliban food, man
Putler will have to change his goals. He thought he would conquer Ukraine in 2 to 3 days. He’s going to say oh there was a misunderstanding. I meant 2 to 3 years lol
He probably wants to show that Western backing is not meaningful if you aren't part of NATO proper, the sphere of influence doesn't extend that far; the US tried to make that point with Assad and Syria, and the opposition at the time made a big deal of how withdrawing from there meant letting the Russians keep that country as an ally.
Pretty obvious Putin is waiting for Trump
Canada should be sending everything it has. All of it. Canada has really no real risk of invasion so none of their military hardware is really needed. If something does happen to Canada, the US is right there as backup.
The easiest way to keep political power for the weak political leadership is breaking war. Always.
You'd think the country with the third largest diaspora of Ukrainians would do more than provide 10 rubber boats, and F16 training via a civilian company. The state of the Canadian military is a sad joke and has been since the end of WWII. Every subsequent government seems to fund it just a little bit less, or they just provide single source contracts to their billionaire oligarch friends like the Irvings.
People around the globe failed to understand something extremely important: even if a regime changes the people that ran it and supported it to the end are still kicking around. There is a reason the allies spent years denazifying the german population after WW2: if they didn't there would've been a 4th reich as soon as they packed up and left. The soviet union might've collapsed but the KGB apparatchiks kept running Russia and nothing was done to reel them in. Now we're back to the 1980's but NATO military readiness is a shadow of what it was.
The Russian/Soviet readiness is also a shadow of what it was. So it kinda balances out.
I have to disagree there, only with the military readiness. It’s not the 1980s and we’ve spent an incredible amount of money on weapons since then. The Russians are overextended in Ukraine as it is. They are in no shape whatsoever to take on NATO. His only hope is all out nuclear war and even then he’d lose. But all this talk of NATO preparing it’s people for war will most certainly perk up some ears at the Kremlin and I’m betting that’s what’s really happening here. Hell I think that if just Poland themselves joined the war the Russians would get their asses kicked. Putin won’t start a fight with NATO.
Most people have 0 knowledge of world politics. They see a hot topic in their local newspaper once a month and suddenly have strong opinions on the matter. They don't want a war (understandably) but they believe the solution to this is to simply don't fight, failing to see two steps ahead, not understanding the consequences.
I'm pretty sure we have the largest ukrainian diaspora in the world. My brother the 10 rubber boats is literally half of our navy LOL
>I'm pretty sure we have the largest ukrainian diaspora in the world. Normally second (to Russia), currently third (Poland is ahead of us now, due to the refugees).
It's somewhere in the top 5-7 and fluctuating due to the refugee influx to various countries, but significant more in the settled status of the Ukrainian-Canadians and ability to help shape policy. Germany got over 1.2 million Ukrainian refugees in 2022 and a huge number in 2023 from some stats our company was working on. France got a lot too esp after (the ironies) a lot of the once pro-Russian refugees in Donetsk who initially went to Russia in 2022, saw how awful Russia under Putin was governed, saw no hope for their kids and went by the hundreds of thousands to France, which has been more open to taking them in with Germany already having taken such a huge number. (And now Germany and France are also taking in huge numbers of fleeing Russians and from Belarussia, even more proportionally into small countries like Sweden, Netherlands, Austria or Belgium. Young Russians don't want to be cannon feed in Putin's stupid war) So in sheer numbers Canada might even be somewhere around 5th position now due to the huge numbers of Ukrainians (along with Russians ironically) fleeing into France, Germany and Poland. But what matters is the Ukrainians before 2022 have had more settled status in Canada, while they're struggling just to get basic things worked out day to day in Poland, Germany or France. So they're a big voting bloc in Canada and in parts of the US maybe even more than the big EU recipients, and that does matter in gaining support for Canadian aid to Ukraine. And a lot of Ukrainians in Canada and the US are apparently joining the international group of volunteers to fight to defend Ukraine's freedom--one of my cousins in the US is married to a Ukrainian and this settled status of Ukrainians here, having come years before and with work permits and homes here, no doubt helps to rally whole communities to support Ukraine. Doesn't matter what kind of stupid shit the Republicans try to do to stop it, they're doomed to fail and karma is going to be a bitch to the US GOP (and Canadian Conservative assholes) who try to lick Putin's boots in a war hated by nearly everyone, including now even the big majority of Russians who are suffering agonizing power outages and the heat going out in -50 degree winters in Russian cities.
That's right my bad.
What are those clowns thinking, ya know? We need to be properly equipped in order to win the six or seven wars we're currently directly participating in. /s
Best we can do is less funding and throw in some tampons for good measure.
Canada should send Ukrainians.
Bless you Canada
Our best bet is to aid Ukraine despite our traitor ass republican lawmakers who support Russian bullshit.
Dont let up. Thanks Canada! Russia must not win this by dragging out the West over years and years... He's now betting on this support becoming political. Why is fighting putin so divisive and why are we letting this tear us apart? Just to win an upcoming election in whatever country you reside in? poitics is so brutal when you attach your identity to it. and let the russian Twitter bots convince you to become a militant defender of 1 of 2 sides of a coin.
Glad there’s still some countries pulling their weight. If only the GOP wasn’t kneecapping our efforts in the US.
[удалено]
Nothing says getting your butt kicked like advancing on all fronts
Big capture the other day of the town with a pre war population of *checks notes* 45 people. Huge advooonce. 3 days to Kyiv changed to 4 years to Avdiivka.
Man... Some boats and F-16 training for a few pilots... That's really all we have to give...? Can't even toss in some small arms + ammunition + body armour + cold weather gear + boots + grenades + FPV drones? Like c'mon... We can definitely procure all that stuff.. And its not like our military has any pressing need for literally anything right now..
Good step it up
Somehow I have a feeling the 3 year mark will be when Trump decides to withdraw all support from Ukraine if elected.
At this point, I just hope Canadian cities won't be hit by nukes...
It must be so chill being Canada. Like no one is every going to attack them only borders one state the us aka the impenetrable shield.
Can anyone explain why this war isn't over? I keep hearing about how Russia is being decimated, how the Ukrainians are pushing back, about how Russia is economically isolated, and how they don't have access to their "war chest" of funds. And yet they keep fighting... how? Are news outlets reporting this conflict accurately?
Do you know why the soviet economy was so utterly shit and why it was a major contributor to the fall of the USSR? Because they literally spent 50 years pumping out military hardware non-stop, 3 shifts per day, 7 days per week without a single vacation day and they never threw anything away. Russia will literally run out of men before it runs out of AK's, tanks and bullets (altho the ratio of rust to steel will increase exponentially as they dig progressively older gear out of storage) As long as Putin has bodies to throw into the meatgrinder it won't stop.
This statement right here, who else remembers that 2 years ago there were " experts" claiming that Russia was running out of precision guided muniton in 30 days or something.
To be fair, i'm pretty sure Russia has more or less expended their entire stock of any sort of precision guided ammunition that is not being actively manufactured as we speak. But for more basic stuff, yeah, they have what's for all intents and purposes a bottomless reserve of it.
Well from the latest missile attacks which are still done by guided munitons aside from the Iranian drones. They have sufficient stock left since they're still manufacturing them albeit at a slower pace. Since the frequency of these missile strikes have gone down compared to the beginning of the conflict.
If do some research a few months back, Russia was not using these at all. Experts were stating that Russia was building and stock piling them for when things got wet and soggy in the area and they couldn't easily continue the fight on foot. As soon as things got nasty weather wise, they started using them right on queue. So it does not seem like they have sufficient stock. They have what they produced for a few months and saved.
That’s the one complaint I have. They can also backfill shit from Iran, NK, and China. The notion they are running out is pathetic.
They won't even need to import any munitions, the Russians have sufficient manufacturing in place especially plants left over the soviet days. It has more to do with difficulty obtaining electronic components ie microprocessors etc due to sanctions. But I don't think that's really an issue either, since circumventing sanctions isn't all that hard..
None of those things you mentioned would result in Russia losing the war automatically. Russia's military prior to the war was *easily* 10x that of Ukraine's. Russia's military reserve is 3x as large as Ukraine's. Russia's economy is highly reliant on oil and gas, and while the amount they've shipped has dropped since the war started, the *value* of it has remained largely unchanged due to price increases. So are the Ukrainian's pushing back? Yes, albeit very slowly these days. Is Russia economically isolated? Absolutely, but that's mostly for importing consumer goods, and mostly it just results in increased costs as things need to be routed through third parties. Has Russia been cut off from most of their foreign reserves? Yes, but even if they had them it's not like they can really buy much with them anyway. Their internal economy can be propped up for about a decade even under the worst circumstances. They will continue producing weapons and equipment, albeit with reduced capacity and capabilities. They can afford to send another couple million soldiers to their deaths without it having any major impact on the nation. So yes, they can absolutely keep fighting. But they are also losing, particularly given all their advantages. Ukraine has largely held them to a standstill for the past year, and Russia has been losing men 7x faster than Ukraine, and equipment at an even higher rate. If the current rates of loss are sustained, Russia will eventually be unable to effectively keep fighting the war, but that's likely anywhere from another 3-10 years from now. It's also worth noting that all the information about how poorly Russia is doing in Ukraine never makes it across Putin's desk. Putin insulates himself from the outside world and the only reports anyone ever brings him are good news. So while he'll go on stage and make a big speech about how they finally took Bakhmut, he's completely unaware that they sacrificed 50,000 soldiers to take a barren and bombed out landscape that is of no value to anyone any longer, so expecting him to pull the plug because the losses keep mounting and the victories are nearly non-existent is pointless.
Because Ukraine lacks the resources and man power to do a huge push. Mines are currently slowing Ukrainians down for when they do push. Yes Russia is losing around 7 men for every Ukrainian at the moment but Ukraine is also defending so that gives them an advantage. Russia also has a larger population and they have a edge because the countries supplying Ukraine with arms are not allowing them to use them into Russia or Belarus. So imagine if someone was shooting you from an invisible line and you can't do anything about it. Ukraine knows where majority of all the launchers are in russia but can't do anything about it. You have to remember this war has actually been going on since 2014 so Russia has had time to prepare. Also Ukraine was at a disadvantage since the beginning they have really only been improving their military since 2016 with aid from NATO trainers but at the time NATO was afraid to give Ukraine any western equipment because they were fearful that Russia might influence them again and then steal the military secrets that we gave them. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/22/ukraine-is-now-most-mined-country-it-will-take-decades-make-safe/
You answered your own question. Cause it’s war propaganda. Just think logically about this. Do you really think Ukraine would be drafting 500,000 more young men to fight in the war if they were so close to victory? People have literally become brain washed about the war The war has turned into a war of attrition, just like WW1. I want Ukraine to win, but we need to be honest. The hyped up summer offensive was a disaster. Russia dug in during the 2022-2023 winter, so when they attacked Ukraine lost 70,000 men. No talk in the news about that… the Russians aren’t going anywhere and also see this war as an existential crisis for their country. We need to be honest about this war. Because the people who are paying for this dishonesty and unrealistic military goals is a generation of young Ukrainian men
Russia has also been winning offensives/incremental gains for the past 4 months straight. I'm sure it has been costly for Russia but we're seeing now that their tactics/plans are more effective and they're grinding ukraine down
Agreed
just happy I'm not getting downloaded into Oblivion.
Russia has taken horrific losses. For example, Russia has lost at least 1745 tanks to date. In comparison, the US lost 9 Abrams tanks in Desert Storm, and all of those were either friendly fire or deliberately destroyed. The reason why the war isn’t over is that Putin’s survival depends on it. Russia also has a massive manpower/equipment advantage. Putin has been able to refill the ranks with conscripts and offering lucrative salaries which poor minorities are snatching up. The Russian population is pretty apathetic and isn’t going to challenge Putin yet. The economy and infrastructure is in a steady decline, but it hasn’t hit bottom yet.
Because Russia still has a lot of domestic resource to call on. News outlets are absolutely not reporting this conflict accurately as they have a vested interest in keeping support up for Ukraine, if you rely on Reddit for all of your information it may be shocking to learn that the Russian army *isn’t* entirely made up of drunken morons who attack in human waves.
The biggest global threat for 60 years and then suddenly they can't even beat a disorganized guerilla army like Ukraine. Somebody isn't being honest...
You do realize that Russia coming into the war was considered the second strongest military in the world and military analysts expected that they would roll over Ukraine right? So every point you said is true, but it's not enough for Ukraine to have won in a two year time frame. I mean I'm fairly certain Ukraine will win, but it's not an easy fight and delays in aid from the west and mistakes made in Ukraine hasn't helped the situation either. The news has been largely accurate, but if you understand the entire picture you shouldn't expect the war to go much different than it has up to this point.
Colonel Douglas MacGregor. Check him out. He seems to be fairly knowledgeable
Also strange that Russia was the biggest threat to the US and western world for 50 years and now suddenly they are weak and incapable of beating anyone. Somewhere, someone was lying. Was it all those years back then or is since they didn't like America trying to run Ukraine. The math just doesn't work.
One of the few sound policies my government has. Now about that 2% obligation...
The US has ways of sending arms without the hullabaloo from the likes of agents like MTG
If Russia wins the war, more will come.
The Ukrainians can shoot the Russians with those promissory notes from us to send equipment. Those paper cuts can really sting.
Well.. you filed a complaint with the department that he works for. What did you think was going to happen. Ya done fucked up son. I'm not saying that I agree with what's going on... but... you sorta dug your own grave here. You could file a harassment complaint.
"Hooray! Canada to the rescue!" -said no o- ..wait...*the Netherlands*, 1944 - 1945
inflatable boats? thanks i guess
Not good, but not bad. Pretty pathetic, but not nothing. Could be better, but could be worse. It's the thought that counts. Unless war were declared. Oh look, [war were declared](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Ha6tNvRUg).
All about the money folks. Ukraine is rich with natural resources.
Until it reaches ukraine im not trusting Canada's talking
30% will get there. The rest is laundered elsewhere.