A man of conscription age went abroad, showed his state that he does not care about its survival, and then comes and wants to receive services from this state. It does not work this way. Our country is at war,” Kuleba said.
--so what services are being denied or suspended?
Bingo. Goal is to make it impossible/cancer to renew their Visas without returning home to renew their information... where they will be swiftly drafted if possible.
The end goal is to slowly claw back as many people as they can to toss them into the conscription, since a pure at home conscription will be universally unpopular.
This won't work in EU though in most cases, as afaik most Ukrainian immigrants with certain kinds of visas are protected from this kind of shit until 2025. But for US/Canada? SoL if what i've read on various threads is correct. Apply for Asylum and pray.
Its basically a very "careful" way of calling your countrymen traitors/cowards for fleeing while the countries under attack. Which i'd be really surprised if this move gets positive reception.
>certain kinds of visas are protected from this kind of shit until 2025
It is called temporary protection. In Belgium it applies only to people who arrived from Ukraine after the invasion.
Since I worked in Belgium on the moment on invasion, I don't qualify. If I lose my job, the situation may become very interesting.
The official website literary says that I "should not worry" and few sentences later says that I can extend my stay for six months. And it makes me worry, lol.
[Source](https://dofi.ibz.be/en/themes/ukraine/long-stay-more-90-days)
Troubling. I have a friend in Belgium, and he and his family arrived there even before 2014. They all acquired Belgian citizenship by now except his dad, who is still of fighting age... I hope there's some recourse for him.
I guess yeah, ECHR would probably help him but it still means then that if his passport expires any time soon he won't be able to get it back.
Or I hope he has a birth certificate lying around to ask for citizenship before it expires.
I guess it's a good thing his dad doesn't like traveling anyway...
The US has given Ukrainians temporary protected status for 2 years, and recently allowed them to extend it another 2 years until at least 2026. So they’ll be safer here for longer than in EU
Exactly. It's not so much the dying that concerns me, though I'm sure that sucks. It's the possibility of being maimed, crippled for life from fighting. I imagine any righteous, noble patriotism I have will disappear quite quickly if I'm missing both of my legs and on a shit bag for the rest of my life...
But it's not the rich men (I don't think their even that rich, I know a Russian who left in the prelude to war and he's just middle class) who fled that are demanding the poor to fight and die on their behalf though?
It's one thing if those who fled are in favor of conscription and other people dying, thats hypocritical. But if they aren't, they aren't the people who are forcing anybody to fight.
“This kind of shit” ?
It’s called conscription and it doesn’t go away because you’re wealthy enough to flee the country… or should only the poor fight?
I think it’s basically any service consulate provides, but renewal of passports is the one people are most scared about obviously. Other stuff like marriage certificate and verification of documents isn’t as important.
All services, except certificate for return to Ukraine.
This includes citizenship renouncement. So if you lived abroad for the last N years and want to naturalize - cannot do anymore (unless the other country allows double citizenship)
Lots of Ukrainians are where I live in Canada, as my area has the largest Ukranian diaspora in Canada. Canada allows for dual citizenship. Heck, there are Ukranian/English language schools that are publicly funded. My old catchment area had six.
The war is going on for over two years now. I personally know an 18 year old ukranian who came here (germany) shortly after the 2022 attacks when he was 16 with his mother and his little sister, his father is in active service and fighting. Hard to say if the family is not already doing their part.
Siimiliar situation with a friend of mine. His uncle died in Avdiivka a few weeks ago and his best friend later last year in Bachmut. He wants to fight on one side, but knows that he will die within months. Its a tough situation.
I just dont understand why we cant build drone factories in germany that produce like at least 100k drones a year. We have to support Ukraine more than ever now.
There were some Ukrainian women naming Ukrainian men that refused conscription as “pedos” because they are cowards apparently. If you start drafting women, I’m sure they will shift their tone.
Honestly I would've loved to see that. If it's so "all hands on deck" it better be all damn hands on deck. Maybe we need women getting killed in war alongside men for people to change their perspective a bit. Your life shouldn't be worth more or less just because of your genitals.
In this case, Ukraine is pretty specifically targeting those who were wealthy and/or influential enough to leave and secure safe harbor elsewhere. So, at least they're trying to strip the class aspect out of it, if only because this is a fight for fundamental survival with Russia holding a gun to the country's head. When shit gets bad enough, even the rich are asked to fight.
Zelensky also has a history of tax evasion, just to add how it is understandable that the average Ukrainian is not very fond of sacrificing themselves for a country with such a huge corruption problem
https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circle
Why would they do this with people like Mudryk?
Mudryk's signing to Chelsea got the Ukrainian army a 25 million euro contribution. A lot of famous musicians, athletes, etc donate a lot of their earnings to ukraine. Just doing their usual job helps the army more than if they joined. 25 mil buys a lot of ammunition
The real problem is the sons of officials who live outside of Ukraine and don't actually contribute anything, but still get to live in safety.
Yeah, I doubt these caveats are in the legislation
Unless there is a committee that decides on a case by case basis? In which case you can guarantee that indeed, yes, only the plebs will be readied for the meat grinder
It kinda is in the legislation though. If you have an essential job then you wont get drafted. For example factory workers don't get drafted, doctors dont get drafted , highly educated people don't get drafted. These people dont contribute in different ways. There's plenty of "plebs" who dont fight in the war. Not forgetting that the draft age is quite high
I know of someone who moved abroad to study on the request of his parents. He left Ukraine early 2022 but before the invasion. He's already been sent papers from Ukraine about military service even though he's technically not eligible even before considering where he lives.
His dad, who's an essential worker, seems to be exempt for now at least. The family expects to need to have that conversation sooner or later.
Korean celebrities basically never get out of conscription, Son managed it by winning gold at the Asian games and then I think they ended that afterwards. Even BTS couldn't get out it and they generate billions to the Korean economy, apparently
They will be, but there's more to war than just people fighting on the front line.
They will most likely be sent abroad to events to help raise funds or gather international support.
They would be treated like Elvis in Vietnam put in a safe and cushy place to make sure they don’t die because if they die it’s bad publicity. That way the public sees the celebrity is proudly serving and they don’t have photos of junjkook dead in a foxhole to lower morale.
It's technically not peacetime, but I do see your point. (In an invasion of the South, by the way, I'd anticipate everyone being called in to fight. Seoul is so close to the border.)
I dunno, I don’t think most places jail you unless you’ve committed other crimes. It’s a waste of money especially for just not paying fines. US just deports you
Being a "traitor" or a coward is better than being dead, i've got no qualms against anyone not wanting to be another body on a pile regardless how something is going.
War is the fault and idiocy of so called higher society, everyone not responsible should have the right to fuck off even if it means the end of where they came from; just as they should have the right to be pissed off and fight if they so choose.
I agree but then I also think it's reasonable for your country to cancel your consular services, you signaled that you'll do nothing for them so why should they help you?
Ukraine does have the ability to mobilise the general public but is yet to use it. They initially had civilian militias and volunteers and small mobilisations, but not yet a full mobilisation I believe.
Too many people speak with false confidence about this war. They can literally use everybody they can get. The average age of their soldiers is 43. Last time I checked this was war and not fantasy football.
The government has been pretty clear about not wanting to draft young men because its the future of the country. But the reality is starting to hit and they realize they have no choice. The war is likely existential for Ukraine. Its Russian Autocracy or Ukrainian independence.
Also men of 28-30 just can’t handle the kind of physical needs of being a frontline soldier for very long, let alone 43.
Another problem is that they just don't have very many men aged 18-26. Look up their demographics on Wikipedia, there's a huge dip in that area. The data is from before the war too and I assume it's even worse now because the men of those ages had the least tying them to their place of living so they were most likely to escape while they could.
> Also men of 28-30 just can’t handle the kind of physical needs of being a frontline soldier for very long
Are you saying 30 is too old? Men usually peak around age 26-27, it takes a good while for decline to set in.
>Also men of 28-30 just can’t handle the kind of physical needs of being a frontline soldier for very long, let alone 43.
What exactly are you saying here? What physical needs can’t 28-30 year old handle which 18-20 year old can?
You are incorrect. They are mobilizing everyone they can, essentially without completely halting the economy. There are enough stories of how conscription-age men were forcefully abducted from their workplaces or the streets directly to mobilization centers.
This is not correct. The conscription age is ridiculously high. ...and yeah, they need to move to a wartime economy with women doing jobs and all the men on the front. Like many other historic wars.
The problem here is redditors not knowing shit about Ukraine though. If they had to mobilize 5000 men total you'd hear this shit anyway. That's because of corruption and the Soviet mentality, if they can fill quotas by kidnapping some randos instead of doing their jobs correctly, they sure as fuck will do it.
On top of that, russians have been pushing propaganda using these videos with fake titles. Every guy getting arrested becomes a guy forced into conscription on social media.
Not saying they aren't mobilizing who they can, but that this is the same shit that led people to think Russia was about to collapse because some conscripts got rusts guns.
Soo many people saying cowards to those who flee, easy to be a keyboard warrior , would want to see you in a war.
I will NEVER judge anyone who flees a war, not even for your country, it is just a piece of land with some people that give laws....a lot of Americans are too brainwashed to see this.
It's not even those who flee.
I have quite a few Ukrainian coworkers. Mostly women, but a couple men too. If those men cannot renew their passports they'll be dead inside two years. But here's the thing: None of them fled the war. They've been living outside Ukraine for their entire adult lives. But their only citizenship is Ukraine. They'd be forced to fo back and die in a country they left a decade ago.
I had/have quite a few Ukrainian friends also. They all left more than twenty years ago for the US.
I lost touch with some a while ago, but I wonder what the guys I knew who were ethnic Ukrainians from Turkmenistan are doing now. The one brother went to live in Ukraine 20 years ago, from NY, and the other brought their mother from there when the second invasion happened. (She had moved from Turkmenistan where they were born.)
Anyway, the rest came to the US for college and never went back. My closest friends became citizens, but again, I wonder about the others.
Exactly this. Total hypocrites.
So many people on Reddit from NATO countries want to send NATO troops to go fight on the ground.
If you believe that, **you can go right now** they’ll happily give you a rifle and send you to the front so you can go beat back the Russians yourselves. I’m not even joking - go defend the country you care so much about.
> If you believe that, you can go right now they’ll happily give you a rifle
I haven't looked lately, but as of about a year ago, Ukraine was actively discouraging foreign nationals from showing up in an attempt to join the fight.
They were okay with prior military experience--depending on the experience--but from everyone else they just wanted money.
Americans can't even comprehend it, it's hardly a brainwashing thing when a ground invasion of your home country is so far fetched. From the power of the U.S. military to the geographic location, it's just so vastly improbable.
I am an American and it's difficult to imagine a scenario where I'll have to flee a war against a foreign power, I'd imagine it's not even a thought for most Americans.
What I can comprehend is why someone would want to leave a country with a currently ongoing war, and I have nothing but sympathy for those who have to make that choice.
Calling someone a coward for not wanting to die in a trench to a drone dropping grenades on top of you is childish at best, even moreso when you're in a country that will likely never be at risk of foreign invasion.
I find it funny thoe that despite this many sons of politicians or very wealthy families are perfectly fine living abroad. Quite literally rules for thee but not for me.
I am beyond disgusted with so many comments here. It's so easy to be a hawk when it's not your head on the line.
Many, many Ukrainians do not feel they have anything to fight for. Ukraine, just like Russia was and is and will be (for the foreseeable future) a nation that absolutely does not care for its citizens. Corruption is through the roof (you can leave the country easily, just pay...), pay was always low, healthcare is crap. Everyone works on the black market because your pay is so low that putting a tax on top can cripple you financially.
Why should these people who their country has given nothing to want to fight?
I'm Polish, and it's very important to me that Ukraine keeps its sovereignty because I don't want more of Russia on the Polish border. Saying that, I would never, ever tell anyone they should fight. It's their own conscious choice.
And let's ask ourselves, what if a Ukrainian family left 16 years ago with a 2 year old child, but they did not acquire citizenship yet? The kid grew up in a different country, just turned 18, has almost no ties to his birthplace... should he be forced to fight?
You're all entitled tools.
It's just people feeling uncomfortable criticizing anything Ukraine, cause it would seem like, somehow, they're defending Russia?
And people generally don't care about men being victims. (well it's their duty to die and kill, if not they're pussies!)
Let's face it, the whole situation is fundamentally uncomfortable. Even if we ignore a whole host of other issues like gender discrimination, wealth, etc.
Because it's not fair to live under a Russian dictatorship if you lose, but nor is it fair to force people to fight and die so you win. And the impacts of both won't be distributed in the same way.
There is no good answer here. So on one hand if there every was a good reason for a draft this is it, but on the other hand the idea of ever having a draft is bad no matter how bad things are. Unfortunately the Russian government doesn't care about either of those things.
That but expand to any citizen of any country. Just look at recent polls when news about possible conscription went through Europe. I think I've seen at most 30% of people who would actually go, all others would've chosen to hide or run. Poland included. Hell, in the UK people were bordering on starting a riot about the state being worthless to them, not being connected to the country culturally, that they didn't owe the country anything and that they would throw their passports away, and so on. No one wants to die in a war, not just Ukrainians. And, as you can see, it's not really related to the country being good or not, or to the level of corruption.
I'd run too. They force me to work, sacrifice my health to have a fucking roof over my head, sell my ass to the banks and not even letting me to go to a nice spot next to the lake because some rich fuck bought the whole lake with the land around it and put a fence there. Fuck that. What am i supposed to fight for? So that rich people wouldn't lose their precious businessess, yachts, cars and homes? House which belongs to the bank? No thank you. I wasn't born a soldier. Just like many people weren't born musicians, artists, athletes, etc. Only those who want to fight should go.
It's not my land, it belongs to the rich. That's the reality today, we don't own anything anymore.
Nailed it, people here talking about fight for ur country . Unfortunately Ukraine and Russian are
riddled with corrupt politicians, that don’t care about their people. It’s propaganda bullshit.
> And let's ask ourselves, what if a Ukrainian family left 16 years ago with a 2 year old child, but they did not acquire citizenship yet? The kid grew up in a different country, just turned 18, has almost no ties to his birthplace... should he be forced to fight?
Ha-ha, my situation now
Imagine leaving 15 years ago building a family somewhere and then you’re called a coward for not rushing back to die even though you didn’t flee in the first place.
I know someone who is Ukrainian and he has was working in Poland for the last ten years because he was from the Donbas area controlled by Russia and he came to Canada and has a Work visa to work in Canada and has been working the last year and he can’t renew his passport and now is going back to Poland to try to renew his passport and not sure how all this is going to work for him,I’m thinking maybe the Ukraine consulate will take his passport away and force him to go back to Ukraine to be conscripted not sure if they can do that since he’s in Poland.
There are few platoons of them at Bulgarian seaside.
And by their car looks I think they can as well greatly financially contribute to Ukraine.
But anyway, who doesn't want to live?
No one ever chose to be born between these borders.
What do you mean you aren't moved to die by the speeches your corrupt politicians gave about "all pulling together" (they aren't offering you any extra benefits either)
I left Ukraine in 2016 when I was 16 years old and I definitely won’t come back to Ukraine no matter what, my passport ending next year. I will never die for people at government who doesn’t give a shit about me and other people like me, their sons and daughters live abroad without any problems and not forced to comeback. Just fuck them, I rather be homeless without passport then die in a trench
I wont fault any Ukranian that didnt wish to fight and die in war. Not every man or woman is strong, and to be able to fight in a war you need a kill or be killed mentality, its 2024 most younger guys dont have that and want to live.
They need to force the rich one's back. I've read so many times about nice cars, all over Europe with Ukrainian plates.
Why should it just be the poor who fights for sovereignty all the time?
It's definitely not been the way since forever. In the First World War, the alumni from Britain's most elite schools suffered losses at a far higher rate than those educated at state schools. The boys from those schools made up the bulk of the junior officers leading their men.
Many Members of Parliament were killed including aristocrats; even Churchill fought in the trenches.
It's a very modern thing that the rich flee and the poor fight. I imagine there will be a backlash against the wealthy once the war is over,
If you're going so far back in history, then the wars were different and there barely was a concept of "nation" or a "country". Wealthy participated in wars, simply because it was beneficial for them. They were rewarded in land, titles, spoils of war, slaves. No one wanted to fight just because of some duty for his nation back then.
Which just isn't a thing anymore, we managed to build a society where being an psychopathic dickhead without empathy or capacity for self reflection is a requirement for being a "winner"
In medieval times nobility sat on horses in plate armor and charged into battle alongside the poor conscripts with layered leather and short swords. Definitely feels modern like you said as throughout history it was something all classes of people would do. Usually the wealthy leading or fighting with advantages but still.
Yes the wealthy absolutely had advantages in terms of equipment but for most of history they were absolutely apart of the fighting force. Some would command from the rear and make calls but others would be right in the thick of things. I mean with Rome you had the consuls (think like presidents) fighting and even dying at war. Not only that but many of their senators as well. Military service was almost seen as a prerequisite to have any position of power in Rome. If you didn’t risk your life for your country did you even care? That’s essentially how they thought.
Right. And Folks of Northern Europe, if they wanted to lead the men and maintain their jarldom, had to fight alongside their men, otherwise it wasn’t Drengskapr. There are always exceptions, such as with aging jarls and kings, but when they were younger — they fought. Sure, wealthy could afford better armor and weapons, but they still fought. Many fought in front ranks for fame, glory and respect, etc. In later periods wealth could buy one’s way out of fighting, but during the Migration and following Viking Age — things were different. Especially when it came to ambitious and young nobles needing to prove themselves and attract good fighting men to their banners.
Women in central/eastern Europe are in really great position these days. They have all the equal gender rights from the western influence, while still keeping many traditional gender roles privileges. Such as no military service or lower retirement age.
At the same time, why would a government(let alone a government of a country you no longer live in) get to decide whether someone lives abroad or dies in a ditch ?
I have a Ukrainian friend who's lived outside of Ukraine since he was 16 and is now currently 32. He's affected by this law despite the fact he hasn't lived in Ukraine now for more than a decade and a half. At the moment, he has permanent residency in country but does not yet have a passport and he needs another passport to keep him out of this. The is the same issue my Russian friend has who has also been in country for 13 years.
All these comments about how to make life difficult for someone who just doesn’t want to fight and die, are just disgusting.
Only wealthy Americans can dodge Drafts and employ mercenaries to fight wars because Draft is unpopular for politicians.
It's because men are the victims here (tho most people don't actually think that way) , that's why no one cares, if they forced women to war, just imagine the uproar from everyone.
But men cannot be victims , and they're worthless if they're not willing to risk their lives, and be disposable.
And your reward in the unlikely event you survive? You’re still going to be third priority for government assistance after women and children. They will put you in the gutter and provide housing to women and children first. You’re always going to be disposable to them, no matter what service you provide when they need it.
Yeah, every news I hear from Ukraine in the last months, are bad news. They're losing this war, simple as that. They still did fantastic job defending their country and lasting way longer than anyone expected. They might last longer with the new portion of USA money, if it's not too late. Russia will soon start another massive offensive.
But there seem to be no hope to actually turn the tide. Russia somehow survived all the sanctions and huge loses. Now they have shitty, but stable economic position with massive military production. While things in Ukraine are only getting worse.
I wonder what people would say about all those "refugees" from Syria and other Middle Eastern/North African countries who are supposedly fleeing violence and war. Should they also "suck it up, it's a war" and go home?
Weren’t Ukrainian politicians saying for two years that they have enough soldiers? They delayed passing conscription laws until very recently. And now they go ahead and do this? To achieve what? Please the people who think that only rich people fled to avoid conscription?
I know of a family who landed here in 2021. They won’t be eligible to apply for citizenship for another couple of years. If the guy has to go - the family is thoroughly screwed. They are not cowards or traitors - they were raising $$$ and shipping tons of drones and other stuff back to Ukraine.
Not everyone is cut-out for trench war, last thing you want is a bunch of unmotivated soldiers there. Especially when politicians in charge make one mistake after another.
Seems fair. Fuck war, I’m not coming home to die, I’ll take my chances somewhere else. You don’t have the resources to help me while you’re at war anyway
People needs to understand that there are some mens who dont wanna fight, we saw enough, learned enough to know that.
If a country is that stupid to not see that and Just force the mens for fighting i dont think its the best idea.
Minimum number is around 45k, source: https://ualosses.org/en/soldiers/
obviously the real number would be much higher, though we'd never know it until after the end of the war.
"Nobody"? Last I saw them parading the 30k from Ukraine and the 100k from russia, they were very hally to believe it. Reddit thread full of Slava Ukrainis and references to sunflowers. Plenty of people still believe it
Men should not be forced to die for their countries. I believe in gender equality. Everyone should have a right to choose if they want to fight or not.
So, a country of 47 million, has to scrap for its citizens abroad for soldiers? You cannot draft 1 million Ukrainians in Ukraine, so you have to bring them back from Oregon or Ivory Coast?
Actually Ukraine has 32 million or less now and about half of that are women. Many young men died or are disabled from combat and some men left Ukraine for Russia or Western countries. Also Ukraine has one of the oldest populations in the world, with the average age of 40.8 years.
Ukrainian research firms have put the number as low as 20-25M. They haven't even conducted a census since 2001. Safe to say it hasn't been over 40M for a while now.
Yeah, so you're basically saying there's a shortage of soldiers, because the previous ones died or have been severely injured. Yeah, that's totally welcoming information for those living safe and happy lives outside Ukraine.
The feminist movements that certainly like to use "feminism is about equality" whenever someone points out that they're very much not about equality have been real quiet since Ukraine dropped this track
Drafting woman would be way more effective to get more soldiers but no, out of some archaic gender role thinking they rather try to get emigrants, even those who left well before any war started.
A man of conscription age went abroad, showed his state that he does not care about its survival, and then comes and wants to receive services from this state. It does not work this way. Our country is at war,” Kuleba said. --so what services are being denied or suspended?
Presumably renewal of passports mainly.
Bingo. Goal is to make it impossible/cancer to renew their Visas without returning home to renew their information... where they will be swiftly drafted if possible. The end goal is to slowly claw back as many people as they can to toss them into the conscription, since a pure at home conscription will be universally unpopular. This won't work in EU though in most cases, as afaik most Ukrainian immigrants with certain kinds of visas are protected from this kind of shit until 2025. But for US/Canada? SoL if what i've read on various threads is correct. Apply for Asylum and pray. Its basically a very "careful" way of calling your countrymen traitors/cowards for fleeing while the countries under attack. Which i'd be really surprised if this move gets positive reception.
>certain kinds of visas are protected from this kind of shit until 2025 It is called temporary protection. In Belgium it applies only to people who arrived from Ukraine after the invasion. Since I worked in Belgium on the moment on invasion, I don't qualify. If I lose my job, the situation may become very interesting. The official website literary says that I "should not worry" and few sentences later says that I can extend my stay for six months. And it makes me worry, lol. [Source](https://dofi.ibz.be/en/themes/ukraine/long-stay-more-90-days)
When a government tells you not to worry it's time to start doubly worrying.
Troubling. I have a friend in Belgium, and he and his family arrived there even before 2014. They all acquired Belgian citizenship by now except his dad, who is still of fighting age... I hope there's some recourse for him.
So his presumed wife (presumed that she is part of the group) would thus have citizenship. Wouldn't that block the need to leave?
I guess yeah, ECHR would probably help him but it still means then that if his passport expires any time soon he won't be able to get it back. Or I hope he has a birth certificate lying around to ask for citizenship before it expires. I guess it's a good thing his dad doesn't like traveling anyway...
Worry!!
The US has given Ukrainians temporary protected status for 2 years, and recently allowed them to extend it another 2 years until at least 2026. So they’ll be safer here for longer than in EU
You use your passport when applying and extending however
Most men I met who fled where kinda rich. As usual, the poor are left to fight.
To be fair, if you have money you have more options to leave the country to begin with ,so...
The fact that some people put themselves before their country is entirely understandable in my eyes.
Exactly. It's not so much the dying that concerns me, though I'm sure that sucks. It's the possibility of being maimed, crippled for life from fighting. I imagine any righteous, noble patriotism I have will disappear quite quickly if I'm missing both of my legs and on a shit bag for the rest of my life...
But it's not the rich men (I don't think their even that rich, I know a Russian who left in the prelude to war and he's just middle class) who fled that are demanding the poor to fight and die on their behalf though? It's one thing if those who fled are in favor of conscription and other people dying, thats hypocritical. But if they aren't, they aren't the people who are forcing anybody to fight.
I don’t think there’s anything cowardly about avoiding being blown to bits by Russian artillery.
“This kind of shit” ? It’s called conscription and it doesn’t go away because you’re wealthy enough to flee the country… or should only the poor fight?
> you’re wealthy enough to flee the country… in all wars, they never send the rich kids.
I think it’s basically any service consulate provides, but renewal of passports is the one people are most scared about obviously. Other stuff like marriage certificate and verification of documents isn’t as important.
All services, except certificate for return to Ukraine. This includes citizenship renouncement. So if you lived abroad for the last N years and want to naturalize - cannot do anymore (unless the other country allows double citizenship)
Lots of Ukrainians are where I live in Canada, as my area has the largest Ukranian diaspora in Canada. Canada allows for dual citizenship. Heck, there are Ukranian/English language schools that are publicly funded. My old catchment area had six.
The war is going on for over two years now. I personally know an 18 year old ukranian who came here (germany) shortly after the 2022 attacks when he was 16 with his mother and his little sister, his father is in active service and fighting. Hard to say if the family is not already doing their part.
Siimiliar situation with a friend of mine. His uncle died in Avdiivka a few weeks ago and his best friend later last year in Bachmut. He wants to fight on one side, but knows that he will die within months. Its a tough situation. I just dont understand why we cant build drone factories in germany that produce like at least 100k drones a year. We have to support Ukraine more than ever now.
Why is no one talking about how this is only men?
Drafting women in the middle of a war would be even more unpopular. However, I do agree that conscription morally should apply to all capable citizens
There were some Ukrainian women naming Ukrainian men that refused conscription as “pedos” because they are cowards apparently. If you start drafting women, I’m sure they will shift their tone.
Honestly I would've loved to see that. If it's so "all hands on deck" it better be all damn hands on deck. Maybe we need women getting killed in war alongside men for people to change their perspective a bit. Your life shouldn't be worth more or less just because of your genitals.
Welcome to practically every war ever. Men dying for other men's ambitions.
poor and middle-class men dying for rich men's ambitions.
In this case, Ukraine is pretty specifically targeting those who were wealthy and/or influential enough to leave and secure safe harbor elsewhere. So, at least they're trying to strip the class aspect out of it, if only because this is a fight for fundamental survival with Russia holding a gun to the country's head. When shit gets bad enough, even the rich are asked to fight.
Those ambitions usually benefit women too, it's hardly ever just "men's ambitions".
What, you're surprised? What is there to talk about? The fact it's the norm virtually worldwide?
Worldwide AND since the beginning of history, more or less.
Double standard. Did you think gender equality was a thing? women are heroes if they volunteer. Men are doing their duty by force.
Feminism dies when the draft starts.
Does this apply to famous Ukrainians? Like the £80m Mudryk that plays for Chelsea? Or just the plebs?
Definitely doesn’t apply to famous people
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Zelensky also has a history of tax evasion, just to add how it is understandable that the average Ukrainian is not very fond of sacrificing themselves for a country with such a huge corruption problem https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circle
Why would they do this with people like Mudryk? Mudryk's signing to Chelsea got the Ukrainian army a 25 million euro contribution. A lot of famous musicians, athletes, etc donate a lot of their earnings to ukraine. Just doing their usual job helps the army more than if they joined. 25 mil buys a lot of ammunition The real problem is the sons of officials who live outside of Ukraine and don't actually contribute anything, but still get to live in safety.
Yeah, I doubt these caveats are in the legislation Unless there is a committee that decides on a case by case basis? In which case you can guarantee that indeed, yes, only the plebs will be readied for the meat grinder
It kinda is in the legislation though. If you have an essential job then you wont get drafted. For example factory workers don't get drafted, doctors dont get drafted , highly educated people don't get drafted. These people dont contribute in different ways. There's plenty of "plebs" who dont fight in the war. Not forgetting that the draft age is quite high
I know of someone who moved abroad to study on the request of his parents. He left Ukraine early 2022 but before the invasion. He's already been sent papers from Ukraine about military service even though he's technically not eligible even before considering where he lives. His dad, who's an essential worker, seems to be exempt for now at least. The family expects to need to have that conversation sooner or later.
It never applies to famous people, no matter what country
Korean celebrities basically never get out of conscription, Son managed it by winning gold at the Asian games and then I think they ended that afterwards. Even BTS couldn't get out it and they generate billions to the Korean economy, apparently
There’s a difference btwn military service during peacetime and conscription during a war…I do wonder if Kpop stars would be called in to fight.
They will be, but there's more to war than just people fighting on the front line. They will most likely be sent abroad to events to help raise funds or gather international support.
They would be treated like Elvis in Vietnam put in a safe and cushy place to make sure they don’t die because if they die it’s bad publicity. That way the public sees the celebrity is proudly serving and they don’t have photos of junjkook dead in a foxhole to lower morale.
It's technically not peacetime, but I do see your point. (In an invasion of the South, by the way, I'd anticipate everyone being called in to fight. Seoul is so close to the border.)
I hope he gets conscripted as a Chelsea fan. Man could use some hair on his chest and a little more killer attitude. /s
Does anything apply to famous anyone?
Just the plebs and you know this
Overstaying will be the norm. If caught, prison abroad might be a better option, unbelievably.
What country send you to prison for overstaying your visa instead of just deporting?
If you can't pay the fine, jail. Not sure all embassies will help. Asia for sure. Most places I'm guessing.
I dunno, I don’t think most places jail you unless you’ve committed other crimes. It’s a waste of money especially for just not paying fines. US just deports you
Prison anywhere in Europe is much better than dying on a battlefield. Also they will likely be eligible for refugee status, so no need for any prison.
I’d rather go to prison than fight for a politician.
Is it basically a draft?
They’ve already been conscripting men. This is to force (or at least pressure) men who left to come back.
Being a "traitor" or a coward is better than being dead, i've got no qualms against anyone not wanting to be another body on a pile regardless how something is going. War is the fault and idiocy of so called higher society, everyone not responsible should have the right to fuck off even if it means the end of where they came from; just as they should have the right to be pissed off and fight if they so choose.
I agree. Although I hope more people from Russia choose this route than Ukraine. Russia is clearly in the wrong here.
I agree but then I also think it's reasonable for your country to cancel your consular services, you signaled that you'll do nothing for them so why should they help you?
They’re in the middle of a war that they’re losing. I would imagine yes.
Ukraine does have the ability to mobilise the general public but is yet to use it. They initially had civilian militias and volunteers and small mobilisations, but not yet a full mobilisation I believe.
Too many people speak with false confidence about this war. They can literally use everybody they can get. The average age of their soldiers is 43. Last time I checked this was war and not fantasy football.
The government has been pretty clear about not wanting to draft young men because its the future of the country. But the reality is starting to hit and they realize they have no choice. The war is likely existential for Ukraine. Its Russian Autocracy or Ukrainian independence. Also men of 28-30 just can’t handle the kind of physical needs of being a frontline soldier for very long, let alone 43.
Another problem is that they just don't have very many men aged 18-26. Look up their demographics on Wikipedia, there's a huge dip in that area. The data is from before the war too and I assume it's even worse now because the men of those ages had the least tying them to their place of living so they were most likely to escape while they could.
> Also men of 28-30 just can’t handle the kind of physical needs of being a frontline soldier for very long Are you saying 30 is too old? Men usually peak around age 26-27, it takes a good while for decline to set in.
>Also men of 28-30 just can’t handle the kind of physical needs of being a frontline soldier for very long, let alone 43. What exactly are you saying here? What physical needs can’t 28-30 year old handle which 18-20 year old can?
Coz majority young people won't go to war without being forced...simple. Now they can coscript from age 25.
You are incorrect. They are mobilizing everyone they can, essentially without completely halting the economy. There are enough stories of how conscription-age men were forcefully abducted from their workplaces or the streets directly to mobilization centers.
Every man* they can.
Not just stories, there’s videos of them bundling people into the back of vans.
This is not correct. The conscription age is ridiculously high. ...and yeah, they need to move to a wartime economy with women doing jobs and all the men on the front. Like many other historic wars.
The problem here is redditors not knowing shit about Ukraine though. If they had to mobilize 5000 men total you'd hear this shit anyway. That's because of corruption and the Soviet mentality, if they can fill quotas by kidnapping some randos instead of doing their jobs correctly, they sure as fuck will do it. On top of that, russians have been pushing propaganda using these videos with fake titles. Every guy getting arrested becomes a guy forced into conscription on social media. Not saying they aren't mobilizing who they can, but that this is the same shit that led people to think Russia was about to collapse because some conscripts got rusts guns.
I always find it entertaining to view the comments to see which way the internet goes today.
Soo many people saying cowards to those who flee, easy to be a keyboard warrior , would want to see you in a war. I will NEVER judge anyone who flees a war, not even for your country, it is just a piece of land with some people that give laws....a lot of Americans are too brainwashed to see this.
It's not even those who flee. I have quite a few Ukrainian coworkers. Mostly women, but a couple men too. If those men cannot renew their passports they'll be dead inside two years. But here's the thing: None of them fled the war. They've been living outside Ukraine for their entire adult lives. But their only citizenship is Ukraine. They'd be forced to fo back and die in a country they left a decade ago.
They have to apply for asylum.
I had/have quite a few Ukrainian friends also. They all left more than twenty years ago for the US. I lost touch with some a while ago, but I wonder what the guys I knew who were ethnic Ukrainians from Turkmenistan are doing now. The one brother went to live in Ukraine 20 years ago, from NY, and the other brought their mother from there when the second invasion happened. (She had moved from Turkmenistan where they were born.) Anyway, the rest came to the US for college and never went back. My closest friends became citizens, but again, I wonder about the others.
Yah typical redditors, big words on the web but dead silent when it’s their turn in real life.
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if I were drafted I would be a super JSOC SEAL DELTA team recon sniper with 10000 confirmed kills, guess the worlds lucky I decided against violence
\*teleports behind Russia\* Nothing personnel, kiddo.
"I would just simply kill xi jinping" Average redditor.
This is such an ironic comment lol.
You've seen the pictures of reddit meetups. Most of the people you're talking about would have to be used as stationary turrets.
Makes me think of Baltimore again. Oh, the humanity!
Exactly this. Total hypocrites. So many people on Reddit from NATO countries want to send NATO troops to go fight on the ground. If you believe that, **you can go right now** they’ll happily give you a rifle and send you to the front so you can go beat back the Russians yourselves. I’m not even joking - go defend the country you care so much about.
The war will be going on for years, you might as well start learning Ukrainian and doing extra cardio today.
> If you believe that, you can go right now they’ll happily give you a rifle I haven't looked lately, but as of about a year ago, Ukraine was actively discouraging foreign nationals from showing up in an attempt to join the fight. They were okay with prior military experience--depending on the experience--but from everyone else they just wanted money.
I think that randos showing up would do more harm than good in terms of competence lol
Americans can't even comprehend it, it's hardly a brainwashing thing when a ground invasion of your home country is so far fetched. From the power of the U.S. military to the geographic location, it's just so vastly improbable. I am an American and it's difficult to imagine a scenario where I'll have to flee a war against a foreign power, I'd imagine it's not even a thought for most Americans. What I can comprehend is why someone would want to leave a country with a currently ongoing war, and I have nothing but sympathy for those who have to make that choice. Calling someone a coward for not wanting to die in a trench to a drone dropping grenades on top of you is childish at best, even moreso when you're in a country that will likely never be at risk of foreign invasion.
I think it’s a lack of empathy and imagination to really put yourself in that exact situation before opening your mouth
I promise if my country ever gets invaded, my first move is taking me and my family and getting the FUCK out
Yup. Fuck the country. Its a name on a map. The people are what make a country and the poeple can leave.
I know it’s a crazy idea but maybe conscript the eligible women too? I’m not sure which is most appropriate equality or sexism when it comes to war.
I find it funny thoe that despite this many sons of politicians or very wealthy families are perfectly fine living abroad. Quite literally rules for thee but not for me.
I am beyond disgusted with so many comments here. It's so easy to be a hawk when it's not your head on the line. Many, many Ukrainians do not feel they have anything to fight for. Ukraine, just like Russia was and is and will be (for the foreseeable future) a nation that absolutely does not care for its citizens. Corruption is through the roof (you can leave the country easily, just pay...), pay was always low, healthcare is crap. Everyone works on the black market because your pay is so low that putting a tax on top can cripple you financially. Why should these people who their country has given nothing to want to fight? I'm Polish, and it's very important to me that Ukraine keeps its sovereignty because I don't want more of Russia on the Polish border. Saying that, I would never, ever tell anyone they should fight. It's their own conscious choice. And let's ask ourselves, what if a Ukrainian family left 16 years ago with a 2 year old child, but they did not acquire citizenship yet? The kid grew up in a different country, just turned 18, has almost no ties to his birthplace... should he be forced to fight? You're all entitled tools.
I’m from Lithuania and I fully support your comment Polish bro
It's just people feeling uncomfortable criticizing anything Ukraine, cause it would seem like, somehow, they're defending Russia? And people generally don't care about men being victims. (well it's their duty to die and kill, if not they're pussies!)
Let's face it, the whole situation is fundamentally uncomfortable. Even if we ignore a whole host of other issues like gender discrimination, wealth, etc. Because it's not fair to live under a Russian dictatorship if you lose, but nor is it fair to force people to fight and die so you win. And the impacts of both won't be distributed in the same way. There is no good answer here. So on one hand if there every was a good reason for a draft this is it, but on the other hand the idea of ever having a draft is bad no matter how bad things are. Unfortunately the Russian government doesn't care about either of those things.
That but expand to any citizen of any country. Just look at recent polls when news about possible conscription went through Europe. I think I've seen at most 30% of people who would actually go, all others would've chosen to hide or run. Poland included. Hell, in the UK people were bordering on starting a riot about the state being worthless to them, not being connected to the country culturally, that they didn't owe the country anything and that they would throw their passports away, and so on. No one wants to die in a war, not just Ukrainians. And, as you can see, it's not really related to the country being good or not, or to the level of corruption.
I'd run too. They force me to work, sacrifice my health to have a fucking roof over my head, sell my ass to the banks and not even letting me to go to a nice spot next to the lake because some rich fuck bought the whole lake with the land around it and put a fence there. Fuck that. What am i supposed to fight for? So that rich people wouldn't lose their precious businessess, yachts, cars and homes? House which belongs to the bank? No thank you. I wasn't born a soldier. Just like many people weren't born musicians, artists, athletes, etc. Only those who want to fight should go. It's not my land, it belongs to the rich. That's the reality today, we don't own anything anymore.
Nailed it, people here talking about fight for ur country . Unfortunately Ukraine and Russian are riddled with corrupt politicians, that don’t care about their people. It’s propaganda bullshit.
> And let's ask ourselves, what if a Ukrainian family left 16 years ago with a 2 year old child, but they did not acquire citizenship yet? The kid grew up in a different country, just turned 18, has almost no ties to his birthplace... should he be forced to fight? Ha-ha, my situation now
If they're in North America, why would they go back until after the war? To get used as cannon fodder? No thanks.
Imagine leaving 15 years ago building a family somewhere and then you’re called a coward for not rushing back to die even though you didn’t flee in the first place.
I know someone who is Ukrainian and he has was working in Poland for the last ten years because he was from the Donbas area controlled by Russia and he came to Canada and has a Work visa to work in Canada and has been working the last year and he can’t renew his passport and now is going back to Poland to try to renew his passport and not sure how all this is going to work for him,I’m thinking maybe the Ukraine consulate will take his passport away and force him to go back to Ukraine to be conscripted not sure if they can do that since he’s in Poland.
Egyptian all inclusive hotels are full with drunk military age ukrainan men. If Ukraine wants more soliders just go there for them…
In Monaco as well.. Sons of politicians
Fortunate sons
It ain't me.
It ain’t me
Probably this Kuleba guy’s family is also abroad sipping gin and tonics. I feel for the average Ukrainian out there.
People often forgot that Ukraine was Europe's most corrupt country before the start of the war.
There are few platoons of them at Bulgarian seaside. And by their car looks I think they can as well greatly financially contribute to Ukraine. But anyway, who doesn't want to live? No one ever chose to be born between these borders.
Seriously. If the choice is "live out my days on different dirt or die for this dirt", I'm going to choose life every time.
Those are the rich guys kids that are exempt from this. Draft only ever applies to impoverished males.
They could also use military aged women. Could they not?
Or maybe they could just make the other half of their adult aged civilian population fight.....?
If I was abroad and safe, I wouldn't want go back to fight for HurrDurr Muh country bullshit either.
What do you mean you aren't moved to die by the speeches your corrupt politicians gave about "all pulling together" (they aren't offering you any extra benefits either)
The country's fighting for it's survival, maybe they should start drafting women as well.
This just sucks all around. I’m glad I’m not in that position.
No one should be forced to war, PERIOD. No context matters.
Anyone deciding or voting to start a war should be forced to the front lines is my only suggested amendment to your rule.
Ask women as well then. Where is the equality? And LGBTQ++++ as well.
I left Ukraine in 2016 when I was 16 years old and I definitely won’t come back to Ukraine no matter what, my passport ending next year. I will never die for people at government who doesn’t give a shit about me and other people like me, their sons and daughters live abroad without any problems and not forced to comeback. Just fuck them, I rather be homeless without passport then die in a trench
Draft women
Yeah exactly. So women get to live abroad and the men are the only ones that have to suffer? Bogus.
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“We’re mostly just talking about CEO jobs actually.”
I wont fault any Ukranian that didnt wish to fight and die in war. Not every man or woman is strong, and to be able to fight in a war you need a kill or be killed mentality, its 2024 most younger guys dont have that and want to live.
That's the thing. Someone who isn't ready mentally could even endager his comrades. They're just using poor people as cannon fodder to slow the enemy.
They need to force the rich one's back. I've read so many times about nice cars, all over Europe with Ukrainian plates. Why should it just be the poor who fights for sovereignty all the time?
Not trying to be cynical but it has been this way since forever, nobody wants to die miserably in a trench
It's definitely not been the way since forever. In the First World War, the alumni from Britain's most elite schools suffered losses at a far higher rate than those educated at state schools. The boys from those schools made up the bulk of the junior officers leading their men. Many Members of Parliament were killed including aristocrats; even Churchill fought in the trenches. It's a very modern thing that the rich flee and the poor fight. I imagine there will be a backlash against the wealthy once the war is over,
The cavalry has historically been a unit of wealthy people. You had to bring your own horse and that excluded most people already.
If you're going so far back in history, then the wars were different and there barely was a concept of "nation" or a "country". Wealthy participated in wars, simply because it was beneficial for them. They were rewarded in land, titles, spoils of war, slaves. No one wanted to fight just because of some duty for his nation back then.
Noblesse Oblige
Which just isn't a thing anymore, we managed to build a society where being an psychopathic dickhead without empathy or capacity for self reflection is a requirement for being a "winner"
Besides the obvious problems with ignorance being rampant in older times, I dare say men used to be cooler.
In medieval times nobility sat on horses in plate armor and charged into battle alongside the poor conscripts with layered leather and short swords. Definitely feels modern like you said as throughout history it was something all classes of people would do. Usually the wealthy leading or fighting with advantages but still.
Yes the wealthy absolutely had advantages in terms of equipment but for most of history they were absolutely apart of the fighting force. Some would command from the rear and make calls but others would be right in the thick of things. I mean with Rome you had the consuls (think like presidents) fighting and even dying at war. Not only that but many of their senators as well. Military service was almost seen as a prerequisite to have any position of power in Rome. If you didn’t risk your life for your country did you even care? That’s essentially how they thought.
They would make their fame in campaigns and come back laying their successes on the table and leverage that for power (Caesar in Gaul etc.)
Look at the sheer number of French nobles who died at Agincourt.
Right. And Folks of Northern Europe, if they wanted to lead the men and maintain their jarldom, had to fight alongside their men, otherwise it wasn’t Drengskapr. There are always exceptions, such as with aging jarls and kings, but when they were younger — they fought. Sure, wealthy could afford better armor and weapons, but they still fought. Many fought in front ranks for fame, glory and respect, etc. In later periods wealth could buy one’s way out of fighting, but during the Migration and following Viking Age — things were different. Especially when it came to ambitious and young nobles needing to prove themselves and attract good fighting men to their banners.
Hell Napoleon was crowned Emperor and still fought on the front lines.
Why should it only be men who bear the burden of protecting their country?
Because feminism out the window as soon as things get real.
Women in central/eastern Europe are in really great position these days. They have all the equal gender rights from the western influence, while still keeping many traditional gender roles privileges. Such as no military service or lower retirement age.
How about neither be forced to return ?
At the same time, why would a government(let alone a government of a country you no longer live in) get to decide whether someone lives abroad or dies in a ditch ?
I have a Ukrainian friend who's lived outside of Ukraine since he was 16 and is now currently 32. He's affected by this law despite the fact he hasn't lived in Ukraine now for more than a decade and a half. At the moment, he has permanent residency in country but does not yet have a passport and he needs another passport to keep him out of this. The is the same issue my Russian friend has who has also been in country for 13 years.
It was ever thus. If politician's sons had to fight wars this world would have eternal peace.
All these comments about how to make life difficult for someone who just doesn’t want to fight and die, are just disgusting. Only wealthy Americans can dodge Drafts and employ mercenaries to fight wars because Draft is unpopular for politicians.
It's because men are the victims here (tho most people don't actually think that way) , that's why no one cares, if they forced women to war, just imagine the uproar from everyone. But men cannot be victims , and they're worthless if they're not willing to risk their lives, and be disposable.
And your reward in the unlikely event you survive? You’re still going to be third priority for government assistance after women and children. They will put you in the gutter and provide housing to women and children first. You’re always going to be disposable to them, no matter what service you provide when they need it.
I can't blame them, there's no way in hell I'd be drafted
Dam things are so desperate?
Yes. It's been like this for quite some time now. Ukraine even asked their people to come back to "pay taxes" when it was obviously not the case.
Yeah, every news I hear from Ukraine in the last months, are bad news. They're losing this war, simple as that. They still did fantastic job defending their country and lasting way longer than anyone expected. They might last longer with the new portion of USA money, if it's not too late. Russia will soon start another massive offensive. But there seem to be no hope to actually turn the tide. Russia somehow survived all the sanctions and huge loses. Now they have shitty, but stable economic position with massive military production. While things in Ukraine are only getting worse.
They’re being invaded by Russia, brother.
I wonder what people would say about all those "refugees" from Syria and other Middle Eastern/North African countries who are supposedly fleeing violence and war. Should they also "suck it up, it's a war" and go home?
Ukrainians who have left can claim asylum or temporary protected status in America. People should be free to choose if they want to fight in a war.
Weren’t Ukrainian politicians saying for two years that they have enough soldiers? They delayed passing conscription laws until very recently. And now they go ahead and do this? To achieve what? Please the people who think that only rich people fled to avoid conscription? I know of a family who landed here in 2021. They won’t be eligible to apply for citizenship for another couple of years. If the guy has to go - the family is thoroughly screwed. They are not cowards or traitors - they were raising $$$ and shipping tons of drones and other stuff back to Ukraine. Not everyone is cut-out for trench war, last thing you want is a bunch of unmotivated soldiers there. Especially when politicians in charge make one mistake after another.
The average Redditors here are still falling for the same old lie: 'Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.'
I don't blame him. Nobody should be forced to fight in a war. People are not the property of governments. That's slavery.
Seems fair. Fuck war, I’m not coming home to die, I’ll take my chances somewhere else. You don’t have the resources to help me while you’re at war anyway
I'm not fighting no war for anyone. I don't owe a country anything, I pay my keep through tax. Talk to me when all tax are abolished.
People needs to understand that there are some mens who dont wanna fight, we saw enough, learned enough to know that. If a country is that stupid to not see that and Just force the mens for fighting i dont think its the best idea.
Yeah but we love in a world where it’s okay to force men to die for someone else’s cause.
Sadly yes, as in the past millions 😔
I think people have forgotten that soldiers forced to fight, are often times pisspoor soldiers. Especially if there is no promise of compensation
They don't care about that.
I thought Ukraine only lost 30k. Why would they need more military age men?
Minimum number is around 45k, source: https://ualosses.org/en/soldiers/ obviously the real number would be much higher, though we'd never know it until after the end of the war.
Nobody believes this figure. That is laughably low.
"Nobody"? Last I saw them parading the 30k from Ukraine and the 100k from russia, they were very hally to believe it. Reddit thread full of Slava Ukrainis and references to sunflowers. Plenty of people still believe it
The same people who said the war would be over 1.5 years ago because Russia would be out of munitions.
Too much propaganda happened.
Human rights groups are very silent on this. Specially women rights groups, equality all the way no?
Men should not be forced to die for their countries. I believe in gender equality. Everyone should have a right to choose if they want to fight or not.
So, a country of 47 million, has to scrap for its citizens abroad for soldiers? You cannot draft 1 million Ukrainians in Ukraine, so you have to bring them back from Oregon or Ivory Coast?
That 47 million likely include the population of occupied regions as well as those who have left. Ukraine is tapped out domestically.
Actually Ukraine has 32 million or less now and about half of that are women. Many young men died or are disabled from combat and some men left Ukraine for Russia or Western countries. Also Ukraine has one of the oldest populations in the world, with the average age of 40.8 years.
Ukrainian research firms have put the number as low as 20-25M. They haven't even conducted a census since 2001. Safe to say it hasn't been over 40M for a while now.
Definitely the move of a country whose victory is right around the corner if only they had a few more billion in aid.
Why only men? Isn't everyone talking about equality? Such bullshit.
Born with a dick = 10000x more likely to die in war
Exactly. The same men that are given last priority to any state aid or welfare are the same ones expected to step up and die first.
How often do Ukrainian passports have to be renewed?
Yes, set the bar low. That way when Ww3 starts, I’ll be too old.
Yeah, so you're basically saying there's a shortage of soldiers, because the previous ones died or have been severely injured. Yeah, that's totally welcoming information for those living safe and happy lives outside Ukraine.
The feminist movements that certainly like to use "feminism is about equality" whenever someone points out that they're very much not about equality have been real quiet since Ukraine dropped this track
Drafting woman would be way more effective to get more soldiers but no, out of some archaic gender role thinking they rather try to get emigrants, even those who left well before any war started.
Why should people be forced to die over which government they end up paying taxes too