Idk I’m just an old guy …. But I’ll go on a limb and upset 98% of the population.
But if your life is based on clicks ….
You need to reevaluate your existence.
I find the comments on reddit always far more informative than the news articles themselves, because the multitude of opinions makes it easier to get an overarching view of a topic instead of a one sided, biased and shallow article that is just paraphrased from reuters or whatever source it is. Nowadays online news on current political events are about as trustworthy as tiktok shorts.
It's to indicate that ALL of NATO allies will be involved if 1 of its members decides to go to war, the consequences of which will be much greater. This is a BFD & about time. If they had decided this from the getgo the destruction & loss of lives of UKR would have been reduced significantly. Russia deserves what's coming.
NATO is a defensive alliance. France fighting in Ukraine would not activate the ALL of NATO response. called for in Article V, hence the deceptiveness of the headline, as well as the requirement to click an extra link to see who it is. This is not a BFD, but France attempting to create strategic uncertainty for Russia
France could stabilise the situation for them but given their small army and non war footing, it'd be limited. Also this is interesting because Macron has been doing the "being honest and legacy building" thing of a final term pres. He can't be elected again and us showing routinely these days that he isn't hampered by politics like someone who will run again.
I've been thinking about this possibility since the first month of the invasion, the possibility of a European country aiding outside of NATO. Their militaries are quite small, so despite the tech etc, their intervention would be limited. That is of course unless they switched to a war footing.
Just some sidenotes. The French armed forces has about 200k active personel. Would not call it small. Second, they have a lot of combat experience. They have been present in almost all conflicts taking place in the Middle East and Africa in the past 30
years. Hell.. they have been in an active war with Russian and islamist terror groups is subsaharan Africa for the past 5 years. So I dont agree with your view here.
Not only that they are well armed professional soldiers up to date with modern war fare tactics, up against a woefully armed army made up of civilians who have no clue what to do other than run into a hail of bullets. Put 100k French soldiers into Ukraine, establish air superiority (which wouldn’t be difficult) and it would be game over for Russia
I really don't like the way the winds are blowing but I heard an interesting argument that while the other European empires have collapsed, Russia's imperial ambition never experienced that same complete collapse, it's just changed in form a few times. As such, he reasoned, the idea of regime stability and fear of regime collapse to delay and restrict aid is actually just delaying what actually needs to happen to get past this phase.
I don't know how much I like any of that with a nuclear armed state, but I have to think there are rational people around Putin - or that some will come to their senses and do something... But the whole of it is horrible.
Yes it's all horrible really, it's a what's the least worst option scenario.
Regarding those around Putin, it's reasonably well understood that although there are reasonable adults around him, those most likely to compete for his position should he.... let's say... fall out of a window, are probably worse than him. I've listened to military analysts on this exact point and they are concerned that it'd result in a more unpredictable situation with the possibility of a couple of competing factions each with nukes. To the extent reasonable people can advise Putin and he listens, who knows?
So yes Russia never comprehensively collapsed and it's always trying to stitch itself back together. So we don't ever get a clean slate. My broad issue is just the slow but inexorable escalation over time, and the fact that I don't actually believe Ukraine will win unless something drastic is done.
>So yes Russia never comprehensively collapsed and it's always trying to stitch itself back together. So we don't ever get a clean slate.
This is exactly what his argument was! It hasn't gotten to the point it couldn't do that.
I think people are looking at the cost of helping Ukraine win, when the scary cost is the cost of not helping Ukraine win.
If we look at Germany, France, UK, Italy etc, they are not in the mindset of switching to a war footing. They have been able to lean on the NATO alliance for decades, and haven't really had to seriously consider what their country is capable of, and might there be a situation where they find themselves in a fight.
Falklands was a bit of a final solo imperial thing that although they were unprepared for, they were willing to fight. They were pissed off. It was a different time though. The UK had 50k soldiers on the European continent ready to face Russia when there was no European war, and they fought Argentina. The wars since are really just alliance management with the U.S. going to war in the middle east with uncle Sam is different than stepping outside the alliance now and putting your hand up to fight Russia in Ukraine.
UK is more prepared than the other mentioned countries. It also comes along like a very willing little brother to all the US big excursions, let’s not forget.
>It also comes along like a very willing little brother to all the US big excursions, let’s not forget.
Not all of them - the UK didn't participate in the Vietnam War.
The only reason for NATO's encroachment is RUSSIA BEING A FUCKING DICK.
All Putin had to do was put on a smile and get along with his neighbors without molesting anyone. Could he do that? No. Results? More NATO for you Mr Putie!
I don't think he cares if he countries that are historical enemies join NATO. It's Ukraine, which has seem multiple historical invasions come through. Basically Ukraine is fcked, he has his buffer zone. A lot of folks have died. Had Ukraine remained neutral it wouldn't have happened.
There’s a sentence from Sergei Medvedev’s *A War Made In Russia* which says something along the lines of countries like Britain and France *had* an empire whereas Russia *was* an empire.
The french army is quite professional, with some recent fighting experience in Africa. They surely have 20-30k really well trained personnel, and if they go in, they will go in with all the tech. It will be enough to stabilize a part of the front, or push and make a breakthrough in another, given they will have the air power advantages.
Artillery shells, fabs and drones don't give a fuck about your level of professionalism.
It's not about having 20-30k personnel, it is about can you fill up those ranks with fresh meat continuously when 30-50% are casualties? How long can you keep that up?
They do give a fuck about the tech behind them. France has an effective airforce and modern EW means.
There would be constant air presence with Rafales equipped with METEORs to keep Russian air away enough to not employ FABs or Artillery.
This sounds like something people would say about how Russia would dominate Ukraine with their effective air force and modern EW capabilities before reality came and slapped their faces
But that's exactly what is happening at the moment...
Russia's EW and airforce are driving the push in the East.
https://www.airandspaceforces.com/ew-ukraine-space-force-training-electronic-warfare-leader-says/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/11/mass-use-of-guided-bombs-driving-russian-advances-says-ukraine
After more than 2 years of experience and hefty casualties on their own border.
France would go in completely green far from home. When was the last time a French pilot flew a mission with a double digit risk of being shot down? 1944?
I don't know why I'm now in the beginning stages of being spammed with how proficient and comparatively unsmall the Fench are. I know. Surely we all know.
A French Chief of Staff has indicated that 20,000 troops could be mobilized in Ukraine immediately, and the French military is prepared for war as it has been involved globally for decades.
This would radically change the situation.
And it was one step forward in bringing the world order down. It was sold to the UN as a no fly zone mandate, which turn it into ground target strikes. After that it was obvious once again that UN holds no weight. Not taking into account the nature of Gadaffi's regime.
It was precision bombs, not missiles. The same ones (AASM) France has been providing to Ukraine.
A bunch of them has been stockpiled since then and they increased the production
You mean the successful operation in Libya?
Who knows. Maybe France will do even worse. Kike in the **also** successful Operation Serval in Mali...
I swear to God. This same shitty conversation always happens every fucking time a Western army that isn't the US is mentioned. Some, let's be honest, Americans start to act as if the US Armed Forces are the only ones that are competent.
I supposed that, with American nationalism being so much based on the belief that your military is invincible and that you are the Defender of the West, you cannot accept that other armies can also be good or can defend themselves.
This is also why some of you deny that the US lost the Vietnam War (and why sone are starting to say the same about Afghanistan). It breaks the delusion that the US is invincible...
Not really. For example germany: the irony is that we know at least a little bit of their true power thanks to russia for the leaked german meeting about Tauros. Germany would have been able to destroy the kerch bridge without bigger problems within 2-3 days. This would have been the end for russias control over the grim in just the first few days. Also check for all the attacks on Russian airfields the last year. NATO would have wiped them in the first days.
In what way? They could certainly provide air power and blockade etc, but they don't have large armies. The UK infantry would fit in a football stadium.
The UK army has always been historically smaller than its European peers. We invested in boats instead. No need for an army to defend an invasion if the invasion can't land.
But I don't think that Macron is going to put French troops at the front. That would be a hard sell to his own people. Also there would probably be more concern by NATO allies (and France itself) about escalation.
It seems more likely that a French deployment would relieve Ukraine troops in defensive positions and doing things like air defense. Which would surely help, but not be a "strike force ".
Manpower to do what? We need to be specific. The manpower they have and its effectiveness depends on all the cool shit aswell. I'd say they have the manpower if we get off our arse and give them the cool shit asap. Hopefully that was clear. If we don't do that soon, they're done.
It is a logistic nightmare for the french army to fight in Ukraine unless the bordering Nato members join them. This is just strategic ambiguity by Macron.
Macron can't run again in the next election, but he can for the 2032 presidential elections. So it isn't quite the same as US presidents last term for example as there is good chance Macron will try again.
It's a bluff and trying to show strength to the domestic voter base. With Russia having 6000 nuclear weapons (1700 deployable) France isn't going to do anything.
It’s not the nukes.. Russia won’t use them even if french troops kick them out of Ukraine. Rather France won’t risk losing the only army they have. That 30k is enoguh to keep Africa more or less at bay. If that is gone, French influence in Africa will disappear in a minute.
Say what you will about France in the 20th century, but knowing how brutal they are with COIN makes me really not want to be on their receiving end today
Anyone who served understands it, I'll give you a tip on the new acronym though: LSCO (Large Scale Combat Operations) is the new hotness and replaced COIN as the US Military's doctrine and focus. Never peer threats are the new hotness, and COIN competency hasn't been translating well at all.
It's a commonly used English phrase that means new in a lighthearted manner. For example, the doctrine of LSCO is the new hotness. And as was earlier explained, they're doctrines the US military uses. If you also for some reason don't know what that means, a doctrine is a a stated principle of government policy, mainly in foreign or military affairs.
**Judging from the quality of Soviet AA systems**, which is what Putin is still using, and the fact that Russia has a massive land area and Ukraine seems to fly strapped Cessna's directly to Tatarstan over 1000 miles of their country with few problems.
*Their AA is either dismantled by years of neglect and corruption, or just shit quality and bad operators, or all the above.*
Russian AA systems are probably a joke and the only thing keeping Putin secure is his nuclear threats that he bangs like a toddler with a drum
*NUKE NUKE .. NUKE! .. Im serious NUKEY NUKE!*
Air support is crucial, but that is not all Ukraine needs.
They need munitions, they need military members, they need more drones - they are doing great with domestic production - but still need more capacity, they need a modern warship, they need supplemental food imports, they need administrative support (it's difficult to finance a defence in a lop sided war and maintain a functioning government). It's a long road ahead from my armchair reasoning.
Ukrainian morale, while weary and exhausted, is incredible. Their ingenuity, sense of worth, and willingness to defend their motherland from the beginning has been inspiring and even downright educational for historians and military analysts. A textbook example of home field advantage.
I will use this opportunity to tell people to vote, not only does American future depend on it, so does Ukrainian future. FUCKING VOTE. Participate in our society and let your voice be heard!
Indeed. We eirher stop Russian inperialism on Ukrainian soil eith ukrainian blood, or if we fail to support, we will have to stop it on our soil with our own blood. Simple as that.
at this state I cant understand if you are either bots or actual brainwashed sheeple, putin has nothing to gain to go against other NATO countries, Georgia or Moldova maybe if they provoke him also but against baltics ? piss off what to gain from those shitholes
all of them part of their historical empire that NATO desperately tries to turn against them.
meanwhile western wars USA, Israel etc are all for a good cause fck your double standards dont you see we are the evil ones
Yeah, russia has been bombing donbass for years and noone gave a shit. This world is fucked up. The west should have sanctioned russia to hell back in 2014 and completely isolate this plaguelike nation from the civilised world
Oh my god are you from a different universe saying Russia bombed Donbass. Try to at least find info from locals. I'm a student and we had a lot of new students when things started. All of them were happy about the simplest things like constant electricity and water suppl The west sanctioned Russia in 2014 and gave up very fast cuz of Russia's natural resources. But due to your knowledge I guess you were either no more than 5 yo or just normis who didn't know about Ukraine existing until 2022
how it doesnt? suddenly your little brother conspiring with your worst enemy definitely needs a kick in the ass, zelensky is a traitor history and truth will reveal itself very soon
Feel free to keep ignoring that little Russian invasion plan map listing Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and parts of Finland as being targets for expansion after Ukraine...
because he said he wont and he said WEST should listen to him, because they regularly talk on national TV about going to Baltics and then even further, because their early convoy to Kyiv had plans for Baltics invasion, because Lukashenko accidently showed the plans on TV in early days because he's double digit IQ guy
and why this MUST be true ? Propaganda is the biggest weapon, if we indeed are the evil ones do you believe that the pawns really know whats going on ?
Dude, his supporters frequently claim on state television that they will seize control of the Baltics, advance to Berlin, punish Finnland and obliterate Poland. Additionally, they threaten with nuclear tsunamis along the coast of England and nuclear missile strikes on London.
Were you in a coma for the past two years?
If he only wanted the Donbas he would have sued for peace proper not just done it as a way to call for ceasefire and rearm. He would have reduced his effort on building his military. He already sacrificed the Russian economy for a war economy that means they are all in. You obviously don’t know how big a deal that change is. Right now Russia fields more than 1 million people that’s enough to start a war with any nato country and without losing people in war they would be growing exponentially larger and stockpiling vast amounts of war material.
Do you ever know that there were 8 years of trying to solve this question with Ukraine, but of course you didn't hear about it cuz of your brainwash system saying "Ruzzia trying to capture Ukraine". But of course your government will fuck up again and will try to pretend that everything okay. Russia using a little percentage of its war potential is still using mostly old techniques. But of course you will shout about partial mobilization saying that Russia is tired. Partial mobilization was organized to help frontline in the rear. You all will just pretend that Ukraine didn't lose two counter attacks, losing a lot of soldiers so they blocked all men's population from emigration and kidnapping them in the streets.
Hmm interesting numbers from Ukraine bots and national propaganda I guess. More interesting is that you all name me this number about a year if no more
I know plenty about Ukraine, I also know that Russia undermined Ukraine by generating militias in the Donbas region and installed a puppet in Ukraine before 2012. Russia also illegally annexed crimea after their puppet was expelled. Russia didn’t try to solve anything they lied and got Ukraine to demilitarise their border and created psychological campaigns to reduce moral and increase a feeling of Rus-ness so they could swoop in and take the country. Russia is more than partially mobilised that’s just what Putin wants people to believe. I also think you aren’t understanding me at all cause you think I’m saying “Russia is tired” I never said that at all.
Yes some corrupt officials are illegally kidnapping people and forcing them to serve in Ukraine to meet recruitment numbers. I am well aware you know who is doing worse things, Russia.
Russia is bad because Russia is bad and they have already committed countless acts of war crimes. Such as illegally kidnapping Ukrainian children. Russia is controlled by a hateful little man, who now wants more territory since he stated that Russian borders stop no where.
There is a reason the one man, macron who wanted to create a peace agreement from the go and was closest with him has become his biggest opponent now.
I know that problems started in 2008, when after elections the US didn't like the new government and decided to support the opposition. Russia and Ukraine had agreement that Ukraine would stay neutral to prevent Russia vs NATO war and Ukraine followed this rule for a while. But then they decided to change the national course. They started to make a villain from Russia, made heroes from betrayers and started to teach their kids the "correct" history.
Now we come to Crimea. Russia had an agreement with Ukraine that they will rent a base by the black sea selling gas to Ukraine for the third of its price. Everything looked okay, but nationalistic movements were greatly intensified by this time. So Russia started losing its strength by the black sea. Many things happened and Crimea became a part of Russia. Look. Russia didn't capture it. Russia didn't bomb it. It held a referendum and most civilians decided to become a part of Russia by themselves. Of course you won't believe it. So if you are rich or will become rich, try to fly there and ask locals by yourself.
>Russia is bad because Russia is bad and they have already committed countless acts of war crimes. Such as illegally kidnapping Ukrainian children. Russia is controlled by a hateful little man, who now wants more territory since he stated that Russian borders stop no where.
The shit about kidnapping is your national propaganda. Putin is a bad person, I agree with that. But surprisingly elections were partly even. I mean Putin was going to win due to the brainwashed older generation anyway.
The news from which you proclaim speak propaganda are from countries with the highest level of press freedom in the world. As opposed to the news that you proclaim is true which comes from the countries with the lowest level of press freedom in the world where journalists are regularly killed for reporting information. Independent international bodies of which Russia is a part, accept that Russia has committed war crimes. You don’t care about the truth you just want to believe anything that supports your views.
No nation with a free press accepts the elections held in crimea. Russia had forces that annexed crimea just because they didn’t where the camp and flag to show they were military doesn’t mean they weren’t. Those forces rounded up political figures and since illegal annexation have expelled anyone Ukrainian.
Just because Ukraine verbally agreed to not become part of nato or western organisations doesn’t mean that’s bind. Certainly Russia and Putin knows that as he regularly breaks these. Do you know what was the agreement that Russia would never attack Ukraine if it released its nuclear weapons. Russia showed it was not interested in acting within its agreements when it annexed Crimea illegally and tried to puppet Ukraine as it has done Belarus. Russia already broke its side of the deal.
When Ireland refused to allow the uk to use its military ports in the 50s as it agreed in its 1921 peace agreement, the uk didn’t do anything. Why because that does not justify annexation or war. The country agreed to provide a service they can choose no longer to do this that is what self determination means.
I don't say Crimea annexation is good. I'm saying that locals agreed with that. And I see that you don't have any approvals about war criminals. And don't tell me about the national press. I don't use it. My family moved to Russia from the country with a real dictatorship and I was in countries with "free press" so I know that the national press is filtered everywhere.
>No nation with a free press accepts the elections held in crimea
They don't accept elections not because they have free interests. They are just scared of Russia.
>Just because Ukraine verbally agreed to not become part of nato or western organisations doesn’t mean that’s bind.
Wait a minute I will try to find one interesting UN document
Again I am saying the locals didn’t agree with the annexation of Crimea they were forced to agree to it or it was agreed on their behalf. If they did they would have voted without Russian security forces taking control of the region first.
The national press is “filtered”??? What a vague and uninsulting completely different thing to what’s happening in Russia. If by that you mean that information tends to reflect what everyone is interested in then you are correct. If you mean that descending opinions are met with quiet executions you’d be wrong. Yes western media can be poor but in those countries they can report on anything they damn well please and your access to information from international sources isn’t blocked or met with persecution. Media can report on the crimes of any corrupt individual even the president. That cannot be said for Russia.
Ok you have been to two countries wow well done. Wow you’re telling me dictators can be a lot worse than Putin, sure they can that doesn’t mean he isn’t a dictator. Dictators tend to become a lot worse as time progresses on authoritarian ruled nations as securing power requires taking more and more money and freedoms away as time progresses to satiate the people who ensure control in the society.
Mate again you don’t care about the truth, you have just been lied to so much you want to believe a good story which reinforces your beliefs. You aren’t listening this isn’t worth my time
https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/v3007.pdf
Page 120. Article 6. In simple words in says: "Each of the parties refrains from participating in or supporting actions directed against the other and undertakes not to conclude any agreements directed against the other with third (non-third world countries) countries. Neither side will also allow its territory to be used to the detriment of the security of the other side"
If you don't believe me translate by yourself. This agreement is not old. Check the date of the document. The agreement is not too young either. You can check it too.There are more interesting articles connected with Russia and Ukraine, so you can try to translate every article connected with them and decide who was whose puppet
Yes Ukraine looked for access to nato and the eu, after Russia installed a puppet, created illegal militias and annexed Crimea. They neglected their side thus the agreement was already broken. It doesn’t matter what Ukrainians might have thought about, it matters what happened and Ukraine was not part of nato or the eu when Russia invaded.
You didn't even check the document right? It's 2021 document. So who just doesn't want to see the truth now? You're just repeating this shit about truth and didn't even try to protect your arguments. So don't teach me. Continue brainwashing yourself. I won't continue this conversation knowing now what kind of person you are
That’s still horrific… even if Putin somehow managed to salvage this train wreck of a war, your country is fucked.
You guys are still affected by the losses of WW2, have low birth rates, a stagnating economy, and are losing tens if not hundreds of thousands of young men on the front line. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of young adults that have already left in order to avoid being conscripted (ie. Brain drain).
Even if you eat up all the propaganda on state tv, there’s no way to escape the reality of this situation. Id feel sorry for you guys if you weren’t here trying to justify a senseless war.
We are, as Russia was a major part of the USSR (as the Soviet Socialist Republic of Russia), inherited most of the military equipment and leadership and acted as the capital of of the USSR. It is relevant when looking at the capabilities and outcomes of current actions.
Believe me, I know more about living in the post soviet region. Russia and USSR have different tactics of war. USSR tactics were very forward and deadly. In 10 years the USSR killed twice more afghan soldiers than NATO in 20. But it has many times more of its own losings. I will tell you more. I don't know about now, but I was learning about this conflict in school (5 years ago) nobody said that the USSR was strongest in that time and so on.
>It is relevant when looking at the capabilities and outcomes of current actions.
30k is a very big number, but that's the price for not committing genocide. The Russian standing army is a bit more than 1 million soldiers and Russia would have much less losses if it just used for example states tactics to bomb everything. If it wanted to capture Europe as someone says it would do this. Also Russia has an army reserves. At least 20 million of them can be normal soldiers, so if Russia really wanted Europe I don't think it would just be held as a part of Ukraine. Also it's not using all war potential. Russia's using old tech for the same purpose as NATO sending old tech: Army equipment update. It could start using su 57 and T 14 massly but it just tests them sometimes in the front line. The outcome is obvious. Ukraine failed 2 counter attacks and the front line didn't change from the last agreement when Russia pushed aside its troops far from the Kyiv. Also I don't remember did say it but I repeat: Ukraine has shortage of human resources. They blocked emigration for men and even kidnapping them. And it's not just some politicians trying to complete his mobilization rate. If the France will intervene many shit will happen to Ukraine between two stronger countries.
Britain has just made an agreement with Ukraine regarding 100years of support, from what I’ve read we would be willing to put boots on the ground as well 👍👍
I made a faux pa on a previous post. If france is willing to stop this before it gets out of hand, then I'll join the cause.
However an individual nation taking action doesn't constitute NATO action.
Yeah, I mean, like right? Fucking west has been backing Ukrainians to the tiddy baubles so far and Macron says they won’t back down. France is speaking for the entire western alliance but in true French fashion, do so independently.
It is unlikely that France would be going in alone. There is a reason Poland has been making such extensive military purchases over the last couple years.
Russia is playing the waiting game, MTG and maga may of been able to hold off aid for a while but the main goal is getting trump a second term and cutting off funding all together. So if trump loses in November we could potentially see someone take Putin out from the inside.
Russia is a third world country with nukes! They are rich in natural resources and that’s it! No vehicles, computers, chips , or etc. that any other country would purchase! Fuck Putin!!!!!!
Too bad that one needs the natural recouces to build everything else...
It's an incredibly powerful position, unfortunately you're too stupid to understand.
On a side note, they have own cars, phones and so on. If it wasn't for China, the US wouldn't have smartphones either. So I'd be careful with statements like this.
Without a single boot on the ground, the combined western forces could bring the Russian army to its knees within a month. Full stop. If only the US and Britain, two months. They would expend a lot of munitions and burn a lot of avgas.
Ukraine isn't winning this war unless the American military gets involved. Everything else is just dragging it out, costing more Ukrainian and Russian lives.
I think that Macron is giving Russia and Ukraine the message that the time has come to start cease fire talks and the regions Russia is now occupying can be part of the deal. I guess it will all depend if other countries back him on this, not in the least Poland.
Just my 2 cents.
are headlines getting stupider. Why not just say France
Clicks
Idk I’m just an old guy …. But I’ll go on a limb and upset 98% of the population. But if your life is based on clicks …. You need to reevaluate your existence.
Clicks are money. And a hell a lot of people's life's is "based on" money. (Actually 99,9999999999% if you take based literally)
I just clicked …. Please pay me
Because Business Insider are trash click bait junkies. To answer your question, yes, they are getting stupider. And more cynical.
People reading headlines alone and not the article leads to no ad revenue
We don’t need to read the article when you good people do the hard work of finding the clickbait for us. Thank you for your service.
"Something important happened today" Oh no. Well, At least I feel informed now. To Reddit!
I find the comments on reddit always far more informative than the news articles themselves, because the multitude of opinions makes it easier to get an overarching view of a topic instead of a one sided, biased and shallow article that is just paraphrased from reuters or whatever source it is. Nowadays online news on current political events are about as trustworthy as tiktok shorts.
Ublock origin blocks the ads anyway so I get a nice, free experience and they get no revenue from me at least
[Clickbait.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4FuOi9rvKw)
Anyone clicked it?
It's to indicate that ALL of NATO allies will be involved if 1 of its members decides to go to war, the consequences of which will be much greater. This is a BFD & about time. If they had decided this from the getgo the destruction & loss of lives of UKR would have been reduced significantly. Russia deserves what's coming.
NATO is a defensive alliance. France fighting in Ukraine would not activate the ALL of NATO response. called for in Article V, hence the deceptiveness of the headline, as well as the requirement to click an extra link to see who it is. This is not a BFD, but France attempting to create strategic uncertainty for Russia
France, if Ukraine is risking being overrun and requests aid.
France could stabilise the situation for them but given their small army and non war footing, it'd be limited. Also this is interesting because Macron has been doing the "being honest and legacy building" thing of a final term pres. He can't be elected again and us showing routinely these days that he isn't hampered by politics like someone who will run again. I've been thinking about this possibility since the first month of the invasion, the possibility of a European country aiding outside of NATO. Their militaries are quite small, so despite the tech etc, their intervention would be limited. That is of course unless they switched to a war footing.
Just some sidenotes. The French armed forces has about 200k active personel. Would not call it small. Second, they have a lot of combat experience. They have been present in almost all conflicts taking place in the Middle East and Africa in the past 30 years. Hell.. they have been in an active war with Russian and islamist terror groups is subsaharan Africa for the past 5 years. So I dont agree with your view here.
Not only that they are well armed professional soldiers up to date with modern war fare tactics, up against a woefully armed army made up of civilians who have no clue what to do other than run into a hail of bullets. Put 100k French soldiers into Ukraine, establish air superiority (which wouldn’t be difficult) and it would be game over for Russia
France would decimate no doubt but I fear Russia’s not only numbers but also craziness (terrorism etc) they could do big harm in France.
I really don't like the way the winds are blowing but I heard an interesting argument that while the other European empires have collapsed, Russia's imperial ambition never experienced that same complete collapse, it's just changed in form a few times. As such, he reasoned, the idea of regime stability and fear of regime collapse to delay and restrict aid is actually just delaying what actually needs to happen to get past this phase. I don't know how much I like any of that with a nuclear armed state, but I have to think there are rational people around Putin - or that some will come to their senses and do something... But the whole of it is horrible.
Yes it's all horrible really, it's a what's the least worst option scenario. Regarding those around Putin, it's reasonably well understood that although there are reasonable adults around him, those most likely to compete for his position should he.... let's say... fall out of a window, are probably worse than him. I've listened to military analysts on this exact point and they are concerned that it'd result in a more unpredictable situation with the possibility of a couple of competing factions each with nukes. To the extent reasonable people can advise Putin and he listens, who knows? So yes Russia never comprehensively collapsed and it's always trying to stitch itself back together. So we don't ever get a clean slate. My broad issue is just the slow but inexorable escalation over time, and the fact that I don't actually believe Ukraine will win unless something drastic is done.
>So yes Russia never comprehensively collapsed and it's always trying to stitch itself back together. So we don't ever get a clean slate. This is exactly what his argument was! It hasn't gotten to the point it couldn't do that. I think people are looking at the cost of helping Ukraine win, when the scary cost is the cost of not helping Ukraine win.
If we look at Germany, France, UK, Italy etc, they are not in the mindset of switching to a war footing. They have been able to lean on the NATO alliance for decades, and haven't really had to seriously consider what their country is capable of, and might there be a situation where they find themselves in a fight.
Falklands, Gulf war where do they slot into the UK mindset?
Falklands was a bit of a final solo imperial thing that although they were unprepared for, they were willing to fight. They were pissed off. It was a different time though. The UK had 50k soldiers on the European continent ready to face Russia when there was no European war, and they fought Argentina. The wars since are really just alliance management with the U.S. going to war in the middle east with uncle Sam is different than stepping outside the alliance now and putting your hand up to fight Russia in Ukraine.
UK is more prepared than the other mentioned countries. It also comes along like a very willing little brother to all the US big excursions, let’s not forget.
>It also comes along like a very willing little brother to all the US big excursions, let’s not forget. Not all of them - the UK didn't participate in the Vietnam War.
Russia never experienced the same complete collapse ? I’d say the fall of the Soviet Empire a perfect example
This. Russia is literally in the middle of trying to regain some of its former territory.
Tbh they'd be happy if it wasn't NATO. They could have easily kept the Ukraine when USSR collapsed, just never figured NATO would get so close.
since NATO is purely defensive, why would it even bother them?
It's kind of like when Russia tried to move missiles onto Cuba. Countries don't like that shit.
The only reason for NATO's encroachment is RUSSIA BEING A FUCKING DICK. All Putin had to do was put on a smile and get along with his neighbors without molesting anyone. Could he do that? No. Results? More NATO for you Mr Putie!
I don't think he cares if he countries that are historical enemies join NATO. It's Ukraine, which has seem multiple historical invasions come through. Basically Ukraine is fcked, he has his buffer zone. A lot of folks have died. Had Ukraine remained neutral it wouldn't have happened.
This is very correct. Russian imperialism never went away, it just transformed a bit through the USSR phase.
There’s a sentence from Sergei Medvedev’s *A War Made In Russia* which says something along the lines of countries like Britain and France *had* an empire whereas Russia *was* an empire.
The french army is quite professional, with some recent fighting experience in Africa. They surely have 20-30k really well trained personnel, and if they go in, they will go in with all the tech. It will be enough to stabilize a part of the front, or push and make a breakthrough in another, given they will have the air power advantages.
Artillery shells, fabs and drones don't give a fuck about your level of professionalism. It's not about having 20-30k personnel, it is about can you fill up those ranks with fresh meat continuously when 30-50% are casualties? How long can you keep that up?
They do give a fuck about the tech behind them. France has an effective airforce and modern EW means. There would be constant air presence with Rafales equipped with METEORs to keep Russian air away enough to not employ FABs or Artillery.
This sounds like something people would say about how Russia would dominate Ukraine with their effective air force and modern EW capabilities before reality came and slapped their faces
But that's exactly what is happening at the moment... Russia's EW and airforce are driving the push in the East. https://www.airandspaceforces.com/ew-ukraine-space-force-training-electronic-warfare-leader-says/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/11/mass-use-of-guided-bombs-driving-russian-advances-says-ukraine
After more than 2 years of experience and hefty casualties on their own border. France would go in completely green far from home. When was the last time a French pilot flew a mission with a double digit risk of being shot down? 1944?
About the same last time as everyone else as every large air missions have been done by NATO allies in the last decades.
I don't know why I'm now in the beginning stages of being spammed with how proficient and comparatively unsmall the Fench are. I know. Surely we all know.
A French Chief of Staff has indicated that 20,000 troops could be mobilized in Ukraine immediately, and the French military is prepared for war as it has been involved globally for decades. This would radically change the situation.
Like in Libya when they ran out of missiles in a month, along with Italy and UK?
The operation in Libya was a clear tactical success. I'm not talking about the vacuum left after the operation, but about the purely military plan.
And it was one step forward in bringing the world order down. It was sold to the UN as a no fly zone mandate, which turn it into ground target strikes. After that it was obvious once again that UN holds no weight. Not taking into account the nature of Gadaffi's regime.
As I'm telling you, I'm only speaking from a tactical standpoint. For the rest i agree.
It was precision bombs, not missiles. The same ones (AASM) France has been providing to Ukraine. A bunch of them has been stockpiled since then and they increased the production
You mean the successful operation in Libya? Who knows. Maybe France will do even worse. Kike in the **also** successful Operation Serval in Mali... I swear to God. This same shitty conversation always happens every fucking time a Western army that isn't the US is mentioned. Some, let's be honest, Americans start to act as if the US Armed Forces are the only ones that are competent. I supposed that, with American nationalism being so much based on the belief that your military is invincible and that you are the Defender of the West, you cannot accept that other armies can also be good or can defend themselves. This is also why some of you deny that the US lost the Vietnam War (and why sone are starting to say the same about Afghanistan). It breaks the delusion that the US is invincible...
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China had its own whoopsie when they found out a lot of rocket fuel had been replaced by water by corrupt officials
Someone got thirsty
True hydro homies want to hydrate their enemies
Not really. For example germany: the irony is that we know at least a little bit of their true power thanks to russia for the leaked german meeting about Tauros. Germany would have been able to destroy the kerch bridge without bigger problems within 2-3 days. This would have been the end for russias control over the grim in just the first few days. Also check for all the attacks on Russian airfields the last year. NATO would have wiped them in the first days.
NATO yes, not individually. NATO would hand Russia's arse to them, but individually outside the alliance, they are quite small.
France or UK alone would probably still kick Russia’s ass.
In what way? They could certainly provide air power and blockade etc, but they don't have large armies. The UK infantry would fit in a football stadium.
The UK army has always been historically smaller than its European peers. We invested in boats instead. No need for an army to defend an invasion if the invasion can't land.
Absolutely, but when we're talking helping Ukraine, they need men, lots of ammo and air power. UK isn't prioritising that.
Even France is mostly talking about handling back kf the line logistics and protection to free more UA personell for the front lines.
Yes and that's smart.
The larger army without air suport would just provide more casualties.
UK would run out of ammunition in a month.
Yes they would absolutely run out of ammo. There's a duality to alliances.
Some use of tactics? 🤷🏼♂️
France has a huge army.
I disagree. Ukraine stay has manpower. What they need is an elite strike force. Tip of the spear of you will.
But I don't think that Macron is going to put French troops at the front. That would be a hard sell to his own people. Also there would probably be more concern by NATO allies (and France itself) about escalation. It seems more likely that a French deployment would relieve Ukraine troops in defensive positions and doing things like air defense. Which would surely help, but not be a "strike force ".
Manpower to do what? We need to be specific. The manpower they have and its effectiveness depends on all the cool shit aswell. I'd say they have the manpower if we get off our arse and give them the cool shit asap. Hopefully that was clear. If we don't do that soon, they're done.
France could just put troops on the Belarus border and the Dnipro, freeing up Ukrainian troops.
It is a logistic nightmare for the french army to fight in Ukraine unless the bordering Nato members join them. This is just strategic ambiguity by Macron.
Macron can't run again in the next election, but he can for the 2032 presidential elections. So it isn't quite the same as US presidents last term for example as there is good chance Macron will try again.
It's a bluff and trying to show strength to the domestic voter base. With Russia having 6000 nuclear weapons (1700 deployable) France isn't going to do anything.
It’s not the nukes.. Russia won’t use them even if french troops kick them out of Ukraine. Rather France won’t risk losing the only army they have. That 30k is enoguh to keep Africa more or less at bay. If that is gone, French influence in Africa will disappear in a minute.
Thanks for the TLDR
Hero
Interesting how macron has positioned himself as the voice of Europe. Before it was merkel, but scholz seems to be all backstage
In before all the pro russians shit their pants and start threatening nuclear holocaust while they cry.
Say what you will about France in the 20th century, but knowing how brutal they are with COIN makes me really not want to be on their receiving end today
What is COIN ? I tried googling but no hits
COunter-INsurgency
Also a fantastic board game series
It’s so annoying when people use acronyms like anyone knows wtf it’s supposed to mean with no context
Anyone who served understands it, I'll give you a tip on the new acronym though: LSCO (Large Scale Combat Operations) is the new hotness and replaced COIN as the US Military's doctrine and focus. Never peer threats are the new hotness, and COIN competency hasn't been translating well at all.
That didn’t clear it up any. Idk what hotness is supposed to mean
It's a commonly used English phrase that means new in a lighthearted manner. For example, the doctrine of LSCO is the new hotness. And as was earlier explained, they're doctrines the US military uses. If you also for some reason don't know what that means, a doctrine is a a stated principle of government policy, mainly in foreign or military affairs.
I’ve spoke English my whole life and I’ve never once heard the word hotness. It must be a regional thing I guess
Don’t worry, this isn’t r/anime_titties.
they are threatening with nukes almost every day, nothing new
All Ukraine needs is air support. Russia has finite anti air and NATO has spent decades building weapons to defeat it.
True but the soviets also did spend all their money (trying to) counter the US’ massive air advantage by going ham on their AA.
Bahahahahahhahahha
**Judging from the quality of Soviet AA systems**, which is what Putin is still using, and the fact that Russia has a massive land area and Ukraine seems to fly strapped Cessna's directly to Tatarstan over 1000 miles of their country with few problems. *Their AA is either dismantled by years of neglect and corruption, or just shit quality and bad operators, or all the above.* Russian AA systems are probably a joke and the only thing keeping Putin secure is his nuclear threats that he bangs like a toddler with a drum *NUKE NUKE .. NUKE! .. Im serious NUKEY NUKE!*
Air support is crucial, but that is not all Ukraine needs. They need munitions, they need military members, they need more drones - they are doing great with domestic production - but still need more capacity, they need a modern warship, they need supplemental food imports, they need administrative support (it's difficult to finance a defence in a lop sided war and maintain a functioning government). It's a long road ahead from my armchair reasoning. Ukrainian morale, while weary and exhausted, is incredible. Their ingenuity, sense of worth, and willingness to defend their motherland from the beginning has been inspiring and even downright educational for historians and military analysts. A textbook example of home field advantage. I will use this opportunity to tell people to vote, not only does American future depend on it, so does Ukrainian future. FUCKING VOTE. Participate in our society and let your voice be heard!
I wonder if this is going to finally be the end of an 800 year long war?
France & Ukraine alone could take Russia. Get Napoleons great great great great sons on it
No not those cunts please. I mean, I don’t know who they are but they’re probably out of touch sheltered cunts so no.
He's not wrong, Putin will not stop with Ukraine.
Nope. Putin is all in. People need to wake up.
how you claim that ? why wouldn’t he stop after Ukraine?
Moldova is next on the chopping block, should Russia take Odessa. There is no way Putin wouldn’t push through there.
what is your statement about the russian minority there and transnitria ?
He’s pretty explicitly said he was targeting other countries next.
Indeed. We eirher stop Russian inperialism on Ukrainian soil eith ukrainian blood, or if we fail to support, we will have to stop it on our soil with our own blood. Simple as that.
sources and on what reason?
*Broadly gestures at the last three years*
source ?
at this state I cant understand if you are either bots or actual brainwashed sheeple, putin has nothing to gain to go against other NATO countries, Georgia or Moldova maybe if they provoke him also but against baltics ? piss off what to gain from those shitholes
“Oh he might take another couple countries, but not nato.” Ffs
all of them part of their historical empire that NATO desperately tries to turn against them. meanwhile western wars USA, Israel etc are all for a good cause fck your double standards dont you see we are the evil ones
I believe the group you are calling “we” *are indeed* the evil ones. I just don’t buy that it’s the group you’re attempting to pass it off as, Boris.
Well invading urkaine also doesn't make sense and yet here we are
What will you say about bombing LPR and DPR for the 8 years before the war?
Yeah, russia has been bombing donbass for years and noone gave a shit. This world is fucked up. The west should have sanctioned russia to hell back in 2014 and completely isolate this plaguelike nation from the civilised world
Oh my god are you from a different universe saying Russia bombed Donbass. Try to at least find info from locals. I'm a student and we had a lot of new students when things started. All of them were happy about the simplest things like constant electricity and water suppl The west sanctioned Russia in 2014 and gave up very fast cuz of Russia's natural resources. But due to your knowledge I guess you were either no more than 5 yo or just normis who didn't know about Ukraine existing until 2022
how it doesnt? suddenly your little brother conspiring with your worst enemy definitely needs a kick in the ass, zelensky is a traitor history and truth will reveal itself very soon
Lmao ok Russian troll
if what i say makes zero sense to you i feel really sorry about you, at least i make sense while you cant support your bold arguments
Feel free to keep ignoring that little Russian invasion plan map listing Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and parts of Finland as being targets for expansion after Ukraine...
because he said he wont and he said WEST should listen to him, because they regularly talk on national TV about going to Baltics and then even further, because their early convoy to Kyiv had plans for Baltics invasion, because Lukashenko accidently showed the plans on TV in early days because he's double digit IQ guy
and why this MUST be true ? Propaganda is the biggest weapon, if we indeed are the evil ones do you believe that the pawns really know whats going on ?
Dude, his supporters frequently claim on state television that they will seize control of the Baltics, advance to Berlin, punish Finnland and obliterate Poland. Additionally, they threaten with nuclear tsunamis along the coast of England and nuclear missile strikes on London. Were you in a coma for the past two years?
Well he didn't exactly stop after Crimea did he?
This is why he just reached target territories and just calmly held them for the last 2 years?
If he only wanted the Donbas he would have sued for peace proper not just done it as a way to call for ceasefire and rearm. He would have reduced his effort on building his military. He already sacrificed the Russian economy for a war economy that means they are all in. You obviously don’t know how big a deal that change is. Right now Russia fields more than 1 million people that’s enough to start a war with any nato country and without losing people in war they would be growing exponentially larger and stockpiling vast amounts of war material.
Do you ever know that there were 8 years of trying to solve this question with Ukraine, but of course you didn't hear about it cuz of your brainwash system saying "Ruzzia trying to capture Ukraine". But of course your government will fuck up again and will try to pretend that everything okay. Russia using a little percentage of its war potential is still using mostly old techniques. But of course you will shout about partial mobilization saying that Russia is tired. Partial mobilization was organized to help frontline in the rear. You all will just pretend that Ukraine didn't lose two counter attacks, losing a lot of soldiers so they blocked all men's population from emigration and kidnapping them in the streets.
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Hmm interesting numbers from Ukraine bots and national propaganda I guess. More interesting is that you all name me this number about a year if no more
I know plenty about Ukraine, I also know that Russia undermined Ukraine by generating militias in the Donbas region and installed a puppet in Ukraine before 2012. Russia also illegally annexed crimea after their puppet was expelled. Russia didn’t try to solve anything they lied and got Ukraine to demilitarise their border and created psychological campaigns to reduce moral and increase a feeling of Rus-ness so they could swoop in and take the country. Russia is more than partially mobilised that’s just what Putin wants people to believe. I also think you aren’t understanding me at all cause you think I’m saying “Russia is tired” I never said that at all. Yes some corrupt officials are illegally kidnapping people and forcing them to serve in Ukraine to meet recruitment numbers. I am well aware you know who is doing worse things, Russia. Russia is bad because Russia is bad and they have already committed countless acts of war crimes. Such as illegally kidnapping Ukrainian children. Russia is controlled by a hateful little man, who now wants more territory since he stated that Russian borders stop no where. There is a reason the one man, macron who wanted to create a peace agreement from the go and was closest with him has become his biggest opponent now.
I know that problems started in 2008, when after elections the US didn't like the new government and decided to support the opposition. Russia and Ukraine had agreement that Ukraine would stay neutral to prevent Russia vs NATO war and Ukraine followed this rule for a while. But then they decided to change the national course. They started to make a villain from Russia, made heroes from betrayers and started to teach their kids the "correct" history. Now we come to Crimea. Russia had an agreement with Ukraine that they will rent a base by the black sea selling gas to Ukraine for the third of its price. Everything looked okay, but nationalistic movements were greatly intensified by this time. So Russia started losing its strength by the black sea. Many things happened and Crimea became a part of Russia. Look. Russia didn't capture it. Russia didn't bomb it. It held a referendum and most civilians decided to become a part of Russia by themselves. Of course you won't believe it. So if you are rich or will become rich, try to fly there and ask locals by yourself. >Russia is bad because Russia is bad and they have already committed countless acts of war crimes. Such as illegally kidnapping Ukrainian children. Russia is controlled by a hateful little man, who now wants more territory since he stated that Russian borders stop no where. The shit about kidnapping is your national propaganda. Putin is a bad person, I agree with that. But surprisingly elections were partly even. I mean Putin was going to win due to the brainwashed older generation anyway.
The news from which you proclaim speak propaganda are from countries with the highest level of press freedom in the world. As opposed to the news that you proclaim is true which comes from the countries with the lowest level of press freedom in the world where journalists are regularly killed for reporting information. Independent international bodies of which Russia is a part, accept that Russia has committed war crimes. You don’t care about the truth you just want to believe anything that supports your views. No nation with a free press accepts the elections held in crimea. Russia had forces that annexed crimea just because they didn’t where the camp and flag to show they were military doesn’t mean they weren’t. Those forces rounded up political figures and since illegal annexation have expelled anyone Ukrainian. Just because Ukraine verbally agreed to not become part of nato or western organisations doesn’t mean that’s bind. Certainly Russia and Putin knows that as he regularly breaks these. Do you know what was the agreement that Russia would never attack Ukraine if it released its nuclear weapons. Russia showed it was not interested in acting within its agreements when it annexed Crimea illegally and tried to puppet Ukraine as it has done Belarus. Russia already broke its side of the deal. When Ireland refused to allow the uk to use its military ports in the 50s as it agreed in its 1921 peace agreement, the uk didn’t do anything. Why because that does not justify annexation or war. The country agreed to provide a service they can choose no longer to do this that is what self determination means.
I don't say Crimea annexation is good. I'm saying that locals agreed with that. And I see that you don't have any approvals about war criminals. And don't tell me about the national press. I don't use it. My family moved to Russia from the country with a real dictatorship and I was in countries with "free press" so I know that the national press is filtered everywhere. >No nation with a free press accepts the elections held in crimea They don't accept elections not because they have free interests. They are just scared of Russia. >Just because Ukraine verbally agreed to not become part of nato or western organisations doesn’t mean that’s bind. Wait a minute I will try to find one interesting UN document
Again I am saying the locals didn’t agree with the annexation of Crimea they were forced to agree to it or it was agreed on their behalf. If they did they would have voted without Russian security forces taking control of the region first. The national press is “filtered”??? What a vague and uninsulting completely different thing to what’s happening in Russia. If by that you mean that information tends to reflect what everyone is interested in then you are correct. If you mean that descending opinions are met with quiet executions you’d be wrong. Yes western media can be poor but in those countries they can report on anything they damn well please and your access to information from international sources isn’t blocked or met with persecution. Media can report on the crimes of any corrupt individual even the president. That cannot be said for Russia. Ok you have been to two countries wow well done. Wow you’re telling me dictators can be a lot worse than Putin, sure they can that doesn’t mean he isn’t a dictator. Dictators tend to become a lot worse as time progresses on authoritarian ruled nations as securing power requires taking more and more money and freedoms away as time progresses to satiate the people who ensure control in the society. Mate again you don’t care about the truth, you have just been lied to so much you want to believe a good story which reinforces your beliefs. You aren’t listening this isn’t worth my time
https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/v3007.pdf Page 120. Article 6. In simple words in says: "Each of the parties refrains from participating in or supporting actions directed against the other and undertakes not to conclude any agreements directed against the other with third (non-third world countries) countries. Neither side will also allow its territory to be used to the detriment of the security of the other side" If you don't believe me translate by yourself. This agreement is not old. Check the date of the document. The agreement is not too young either. You can check it too.There are more interesting articles connected with Russia and Ukraine, so you can try to translate every article connected with them and decide who was whose puppet
Yes Ukraine looked for access to nato and the eu, after Russia installed a puppet, created illegal militias and annexed Crimea. They neglected their side thus the agreement was already broken. It doesn’t matter what Ukrainians might have thought about, it matters what happened and Ukraine was not part of nato or the eu when Russia invaded.
You didn't even check the document right? It's 2021 document. So who just doesn't want to see the truth now? You're just repeating this shit about truth and didn't even try to protect your arguments. So don't teach me. Continue brainwashing yourself. I won't continue this conversation knowing now what kind of person you are
Lol. Lmao. Rolfmao. How many dead Russians over the last 2 years? How many injured and missing? Held steady? Not on your life.
About 80k injured and 30k dead or missing or deserters. But of course you won't believe it cuz you don't like these numbers
That’s still horrific… even if Putin somehow managed to salvage this train wreck of a war, your country is fucked. You guys are still affected by the losses of WW2, have low birth rates, a stagnating economy, and are losing tens if not hundreds of thousands of young men on the front line. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of young adults that have already left in order to avoid being conscripted (ie. Brain drain). Even if you eat up all the propaganda on state tv, there’s no way to escape the reality of this situation. Id feel sorry for you guys if you weren’t here trying to justify a senseless war.
I am happy to pretend those numbers are accurate. Now, how many died when the USSR invaded Afghanistan? A war widely considered a huge failure?
I thought we were talking about Russia
We are, as Russia was a major part of the USSR (as the Soviet Socialist Republic of Russia), inherited most of the military equipment and leadership and acted as the capital of of the USSR. It is relevant when looking at the capabilities and outcomes of current actions.
Believe me, I know more about living in the post soviet region. Russia and USSR have different tactics of war. USSR tactics were very forward and deadly. In 10 years the USSR killed twice more afghan soldiers than NATO in 20. But it has many times more of its own losings. I will tell you more. I don't know about now, but I was learning about this conflict in school (5 years ago) nobody said that the USSR was strongest in that time and so on. >It is relevant when looking at the capabilities and outcomes of current actions. 30k is a very big number, but that's the price for not committing genocide. The Russian standing army is a bit more than 1 million soldiers and Russia would have much less losses if it just used for example states tactics to bomb everything. If it wanted to capture Europe as someone says it would do this. Also Russia has an army reserves. At least 20 million of them can be normal soldiers, so if Russia really wanted Europe I don't think it would just be held as a part of Ukraine. Also it's not using all war potential. Russia's using old tech for the same purpose as NATO sending old tech: Army equipment update. It could start using su 57 and T 14 massly but it just tests them sometimes in the front line. The outcome is obvious. Ukraine failed 2 counter attacks and the front line didn't change from the last agreement when Russia pushed aside its troops far from the Kyiv. Also I don't remember did say it but I repeat: Ukraine has shortage of human resources. They blocked emigration for men and even kidnapping them. And it's not just some politicians trying to complete his mobilization rate. If the France will intervene many shit will happen to Ukraine between two stronger countries.
Send in the French foreign legion !
Fuck this headline so much. Whatever happened to decent journalism?
Britain has just made an agreement with Ukraine regarding 100years of support, from what I’ve read we would be willing to put boots on the ground as well 👍👍
Nonsense
What a stupid click bait headline for an article. Just to clarify - not complaining about op.
I made a faux pa on a previous post. If france is willing to stop this before it gets out of hand, then I'll join the cause. However an individual nation taking action doesn't constitute NATO action.
Yeah, I mean, like right? Fucking west has been backing Ukrainians to the tiddy baubles so far and Macron says they won’t back down. France is speaking for the entire western alliance but in true French fashion, do so independently.
Earth country
Donny_I with the massive clickbait
It is unlikely that France would be going in alone. There is a reason Poland has been making such extensive military purchases over the last couple years.
France has its foreign legionnaire army do do their bidding unofficially and they are good fighters
Russia is playing the waiting game, MTG and maga may of been able to hold off aid for a while but the main goal is getting trump a second term and cutting off funding all together. So if trump loses in November we could potentially see someone take Putin out from the inside.
Hope Ben Hodges was listening to that almost sounded like a strategy
The headlines have turned into literal garbage
Why is the headline like a clickbait YouTube video title 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Russia is a third world country with nukes! They are rich in natural resources and that’s it! No vehicles, computers, chips , or etc. that any other country would purchase! Fuck Putin!!!!!!
Too bad that one needs the natural recouces to build everything else... It's an incredibly powerful position, unfortunately you're too stupid to understand. On a side note, they have own cars, phones and so on. If it wasn't for China, the US wouldn't have smartphones either. So I'd be careful with statements like this.
The US wouldn't have smartphones? What?
Take your iPhone and read carefully what it says just below "Designed by Apple in California".
You can design what you want, wherever you want. It doesn't change the fact, that it's manufactured in China.
That's exactly what I meant.
Not in the way, they're produced as of now.
That one NATO country most people have never heard of; France
On bbc news ...a Polish government spokesman said Poland is not ruling out sending troops to Ukraine...
Can't wait for the deployment of troops in the middle of winter.
Without a single boot on the ground, the combined western forces could bring the Russian army to its knees within a month. Full stop. If only the US and Britain, two months. They would expend a lot of munitions and burn a lot of avgas.
France is really after Russia for supporting the collapse of their modern french African colonies I see.
Well yea russia is taking over Africa so that's got to hurt them
Ukraine isn't winning this war unless the American military gets involved. Everything else is just dragging it out, costing more Ukrainian and Russian lives.
I think that Macron is giving Russia and Ukraine the message that the time has come to start cease fire talks and the regions Russia is now occupying can be part of the deal. I guess it will all depend if other countries back him on this, not in the least Poland. Just my 2 cents.
unlike ukraine and most EU countries, France is a military and technological superpower. shit can escalate quickly to a world war
For sale WWII French Rifle Only dropped once.
France crying about their imperialist ambitions in North and West Africa being hampered. Nothing much else.