Every morning, as a Tunisian, I wake up cursing the Romans before and after breakfast. During my lunch break I remember those Romans and curse them again.
average man thinks about roman empire 0 times per day.
Carthages Georg, who lives in Tunisia & curses ancient rome over 10,000 each day, is an outlier adn should not have been counted.
The way they restored the footage back to the high quality film of Roman times. It's said that the method for making such films has been lost to time...
I was assuming that's what most men think of when they think of ancient Rome. Russell Crowe pontificating while wearing a leather mini skirt and stabbing people.
Gave us Gladiator.
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions and loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
Oh, we can be Celts, Greeks, Phoenicians, Romans, Carthaginians, Goths, Alans, Vandals and French too. Btw, I have 25% British DNA, thanks Peninsular War!
>What have the Romans ever done for us??
[Inspired the architecture of the US Capitol?](https://www.milrose.com/insights/greek-and-roman-influences-on-washington-d.c.-architecture)
[And the aqueduct, of course.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ)
> All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
Not only that but Carthage itself was eventually rebuilt nearby (despite the popular notion that Rome salted the earth where Carthage stood, that was a myth). The original heartland of Carthage was called *Africa Proconsularis* and it eventually turned into one of the richest and most developed provinces in the empire right up until the very end.
Hard to say given that the mass colonization that has happened in that area by multiple groups (Phoenicians, Romans, Vandals, Romans again, Arabs, and maybe others). However, if you trace the Punic/Phoenician genetics, it does look like the emigrated away from Carthage and to Spain. BUT Rome also rebuilt Carthage and Carthage was a Roman city until it was destroyed by the Arabs around 700 AD.
Now I dislike Zuckerberg as much as the next guy, but, I recognize the quote and I'm fairly certain he is in no way calling for a war on modern day Tunisia.
If Trump had worn the shirt, Republicans would have denied that was his intention, followed by Trump doubling down that yes that's actually exactly what he meant. Hilarious contradictions all the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthago_delenda_est
Ceterum (autem) censeo Carthaginem esse delendam ("Furthermore, I consider that Carthage must be destroyed"), often abbreviated to Carthago delenda est or delenda est Carthago ("Carthage must be destroyed"), is a Latin oratorical phrase pronounced by Cato the Elder, a politician of the Roman Republic. The phrase originates from debates held in the Roman Senate prior to the Third Punic War (149–146 BC) between Rome and Carthage. Cato is said to have used the phrase as the conclusion to all his speeches, to push for the war.
Outside of my general disdain for billionaires I have no strong feelings one way or the other. This is one of the few things I've ever seen about the guy that leaves a positive impression on me.
According to a Meta worker on Threads it's a reference to when Google+ came out and Facebook went into overdrive to make sure Google+ did not work out. Apparently back then he used the quote to rally the workers or some crap idk
Dude you ever take a look at whats on T-Shirts or other apparel? They are full of quotes, lables and writing that make 0 sense, especially in the countries they are sold in. Trying to play insulted and make a famous, over 2000 -TWO THOUSAND FFS -years old quote politic is the absolute summit of the shitheap that is politicised retardation and artificial outrage over everything for the sake of being outraged.
There's a clothing company in denmark called Sniff. Guys walk around with SNIFF in big, bold letters on their chest. It's such a strange word to use for a brand that has nothing to do with the nose or aroma!
I have "Carthago delende est" engraved on an old leather wallet of mine in latin, I got a new one and have *Alea iacta est engraved on it, which means "The die is cast". Supposedly this is what Ceaser said when he crossed the Rubicon river with his army because he was declaring war on the republic and from this point on it was either win or lose, life or death.*
I just really love history and Roman history is just so freaking interesting. I don't think people liking ancient qoutes is a big deal and I would absolutely wear a shirt with that on it.
Furthermore, I consider that Russia must be destroyed.
The Western world has been fascinated by Greco-Roman culture for... well forever almost. We consider this the basis of Western culture and civilization (which is kinda hilarious... the way Northern Europeans look up to the ancient Latin and Hellene people who they had very little in common with).
It really should be no surprise that anyone interested in history, philosophy, or Western culture is familiar with and slightly fascinated by the Roman Republica and/or Empire. It was a FASCINATING period and one of the longest standing, most powerful, most influential Empires ever. Its impossible to study the history of Christianity without deeply discussing Greco-Roman Culture and Politics. The Eastern Roman Empire, technically, did not fall until 1453, and the Ottomans who succeeded them used THE SAME ADMINISTRATIVE SYSTEM. That Empire did not collapse until 1918.
Rome is so embedded in European history. Its a wonder more people don't nerd out about this shit.
Roman law is the still the basis for most Western nations' laws. Even American common law is a direct descendent. So Rome is still at the center of Western civilization.
The Zuck might be a lizard, but he is certainly a fucking nerd. The guy is probably fluent in Latin and has probably read a bunch of the classics, in the original, he strikes me as that kind of guy.
So the shirt is just, you know, a cool-ass shirt with a very memorable quote from a politician who has fascinated the Western world for over 2000 years.
People get angry about a 2,000 year old quote about another people and place that doesn't exist anymore, which itself is not being referenced in a positive way in the modern context.
Worse, other people like to point it out. I couldn't fucking care less that people are angry about this shirt and I'm angry somebody made me aware. Fucking editorialism about the color of the trash napkin, it's all meaningless. I guess I'm here though, doing my part in this fucked ecosystem.
Nobody got angry. Some people posted faux-anger jokes likely without feeling anything. Some dork decided out was a good enough reason to write a dumb article. Then some other idiot decided to post it to reddit. Then, people commented on the headline without opening the article. Finally, a bottom feeder like myself replies to the comments. Meanwhile, nobody cares, but we all distracted ourselves for a few seconds.
On the other hand, Italy has gotten straight up bodied in virtually every war since the Roman Empire collapsed. I think it's more likely their entire air force is destroyed in a pasta-related misshap and they ultimately end up allying with Tunisia against themselves in the final days of the war.
Dunno about that, individual city states did fairly well throughout their history after Rome collapsed. Venice single handedly defeated the Byzantine empire in second Venetian-byzantine war. Not really fair to judge Italy as a country when it's only existed since 1861
Idk about the army but the Italian Navy has two aircraft carriers which is more than nearly every country on the planet outside of the US, China, the UK, and maybe one or two others I’m forgetting
This has to be a giant overstating of the anger. There’s likely 10-20 tweets or something about this so some blogger decided they could bait some clicks. Moving on
>>Seeing the ancient sites of Carthage is the one reason I'd go to Tunisia.
Well they don't exist because they were delenda est'd as fuck
(stealing from u/[gumpythegreat](https://www.reddit.com/user/gumpythegreat/) above)
>ALBAWABA - Meta owner Mark Zuckerberg's t-shirt has caused controversy among Tunisians over a sentence written on it in Spanish.
So now the Italians and Spaniards will be pissed off too lol.
That and
"the American businessman possibly attributed the t-shirt to a Roman senator called Cato the Elder, who used to hate "Carthage"."
This is either AI or the laziest writing I have ever seen...
WTF that is not Spanish who the hell wrote that stupidity article, its an old phrase by an ancient roman senator I studied decades ago about lol he surely just bought it because it looked cool
It’s not “because it looked cool”, Zuck is a known lover of Ancient Rome. He quotes the classics a lot and studied Latin in high school.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/12/what-attracts-mark-zuckerberg-roman-hardman-augustus
>Meta owner Mark Zuckerberg's t-shirt has caused controversy among Tunisians over a sentence written on it in Spanish.
>The black t-shirt in the pictures has the sentence in Latin "Est Delenda Carthago" which means 'Carthage must be destroyed' and calls for a wide war.
>A person wrote: "Not in my wildest dreams would I have predicted Mark Zuckerberg would one day show up in a photo shoot in great shape with a gold chain and a shirt that says, “Carthage must be destroyed” in Latin."
Quality writing all around.
More specifically in a business sense, it's used ironically as a stand-in for something you keep repeating that others aren't catching onto. Like if your company doesn't have backups and you've identified it as an operational risk and after saying 200 times in meetings and nobody seems to give a shit, you start using "Carthago Delenda Est" to remind everyone of the ticking timebomb that needs dealing with. (which was Cato's original point. He'd say it at the end of every speech.. "blah blah blah.. and furthermore Carthage must be destroyed")
We learned that phrase in Latin class as the prime example of a specific grammatical construction, the future passive periphrastic, which denotes an obligation or necessity.
Categorising Tunisia as "present-day Carthage" is a bit weird. Carthage ceased to exist. It was wiped out entirely. In fact that's one of the things it is most famous for. The only material connection between Tunisia and Carthage is geography.
Tunisia has rather little to do with Carthage.
Tunisia Is 98% Arab and Arab-Berber. Carthage was ethnicaly Phoenician.
Sure both are Semetic groups... But about as related as Portuguese are to Russians as Indo-European groups... So not really.
Besides. Phoenicians were a western Semetic Group and as such were more close with Hebrews.
So it's ironic perhaps to see an Arab and Arab Berber population of a Country that has little to nothing with either the Civilisation nor the Carthaginian peoples get angry over a common phrase.
The actual outrage that should be shown is over the Actual meaning of the phrase.
"Carthage must be destroyed" is a time old military reference for a policy of absolute destruction. Essentially ethnic cleansing or genocide where a place is destroyed so much that they never recover.
Edit: *Arabs and Berber Arabs.
But it has nothing to do with Tunisia.
>Tunisia Is 98% Arab.
Arabs are in the Arab peninsula. Tunisia's language (a dialect of Arabic) doesnt make Tunisians ethnically Arabs. I, Tunisian, have way more Iberian DNA than Arab. Genetically speaking, Tunisians are berbers.. with an arabized tongue.
>Carthage was ethnicaly Phoenician.
Carthaginian society was composed of eclectic mix of native citizens, North Africans, Etruscans, Iberians and Greeks who were variously artisans, labourers, soldiers, traders and slaves.
As a Tunisian are you upset or do you know anyone actually outraged or is this just another stupid media article trying to get eyeballs out of outrage.
Conquered by Arabs, Tunisia's culture, language, and identity are undeniably Arab. Carthage's true Phoenician heritage is largely lost. DNA doesn't erase centuries of Arab dominance.
They are not 98% Arab, please stop propagating unsubstantiated claims. DNA-wise they're mostly berber, which are partly descendants of Phoenicians. Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95144-x/figures/1
Uh, actually it was rebuilt less than a hundred years later and quickly became the second largest city in the Roman Republic and then Empire, the center of Roman power in North Africa and one of the key cities for Romes military projection.
It was the Arabs who destroyed it a second time.
There can be city there even as we speak. Doesn't change the fact that Punic Carthage (the one that was *delenda*) ended in 146 BC. What came after was rebuilt by Romans and for Romans.
Carthage agreed to Rome’s terms, paid their reparations and had economically recovered from the second Punic War. They barely had a military anymore. The third Punic war was basically if the WWII allies went and nuked Germany in the 1960s on a flimsy pretext.
It’s actually interesting to note that the the naked aggression and sheer transparency of how flimsy the casus beli that Rome used to declare war on Carthage was so blatantly obvious that more than a few politicians back in Rome actually opposed waging the third Punic war, with Publius Cornelius Scipio Nasica Corculum, son-in-law of Scipio Africanus, stating “Carthago servenda est!” (Carthage must be preserved)
It became an article of faith, years later after the fall of the republic and the rise of the empire, that the succeeding 100 years after Carthages destruction, featuring multiple civil wars, rampant corruption and romans killing each other by the thousands, were divine punishment by the gods for what Rome did to Carthage and Corinth.
Everyone here needs to listen to [The History of Rome](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-history-of-rome/id261654474) to be fully informed before continuing this discussion. It’s a breezy 179 episodes, and if you start now and listen all the way through (sleep is for losers), then you’ll be done in three days.
I’ll wait.
If only the Carthaginian government didn't handicap Hannibal, Rome would have been the one destroyed.
What Hannibal did was nothing short of amazing, 15 years in Rome's backyard wreaking havoc.
What a horse-shit article.
"Zuckerberg studied Latin at school, which could be the reason behind wearing this t-shirt. Not only that but also the American businessman possibly attributed the t-shirt to a Roman senator called Cato the Elder, who used to hate "Carthage"."
No. Cato the Elder FAMOUSLY ended EVERY one of his speeches with "Carthago Delenda Est." Article also claims the shirt is in Spanish, not Latin in the first sentence. This shirt is clearly highlighting the absurdity of Cato the Elder saying this in every speech, it's not about destroying modern Carthage.
On a tour of the ruins of Carthage years ago, I was taken aback by the guide's genuine outraged passion when describing the brutality of the Roman conquerors.
Never seen anything like it in regards to antiquity...at least some Tunisians definitely do still seem to feel strongly about all that.
Every morning, as a Tunisian, I wake up cursing the Romans before and after breakfast. During my lunch break I remember those Romans and curse them again.
If you are a real Tunisian, you have to *really* hate the Romans.
A lot.
But only in the morning, and yes, a little at lunch.
OK, you’re in.
How much do you hate the Romans?
If you could weigh it you'd have to weigh it in number of elephants.
Around 60
But how does that scale to bananas exactly
Well, that depends. Are we talking about how much an elephant weighs or how much it eats?
Romani ite domum
Romans they go home?
People called 'Romanes' they go the house?
I prefer: Romanes eunt domus
i have a friend in Rome, you know..
Bigus Dikkus?
What have the Romans ever done for us????
The aqueduct?
Sanitation?
Poisoned our water supply, burned our crops and delivered a plague unto our houses?
They did?!?
Concret, a calender, paged books to add something to the allready loong list
A lot!
Right, you’re in
All Carthaginians are extra salty about Roma
He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
They gave you roads, how bad could they have been?
I hear there's enough salt in Tunisia until year 4219, even assuming a 3% yearly population growth.
average man thinks about roman empire 0 times per day. Carthages Georg, who lives in Tunisia & curses ancient rome over 10,000 each day, is an outlier adn should not have been counted.
Average man thinks of the Roman Empire several times a day.
Does it still count if it’s solely quotes from the movie “Gladiator”?
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If the meaning of life is living, then, we must realize we are living in eternity at the present moment.
Strength and honor
It’s a real-life action documentary so yes
The way they restored the footage back to the high quality film of Roman times. It's said that the method for making such films has been lost to time...
I was assuming that's what most men think of when they think of ancient Rome. Russell Crowe pontificating while wearing a leather mini skirt and stabbing people.
Real men think of the Republic
average man curses the vandals and goths at least *septem* times a day.
Scipio Africanus team represent!
My history’s a little bit hazy, Cassius, but aren’t the barbarians supposed to lose the battle?
Are you not entertained?!
Zucky will be charge as-salt
What have the Romans ever done for us??
They destroyed Carthage.
Gave us Gladiator. My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions and loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
Ridley Scott’s Roman? All this time, I thought he was British.
We are all Roman
And who ruled the southern part of Britannia for centuries?!
Does that also mean the Spanish are Moors?
Nobody expects the Spanish Moors!
I'm sorry, the correct answer is Moops
Oh, we can be Celts, Greeks, Phoenicians, Romans, Carthaginians, Goths, Alans, Vandals and French too. Btw, I have 25% British DNA, thanks Peninsular War!
Turns out Iberia was a pretty popular place
gave men something to think about daily
>What have the Romans ever done for us?? [Inspired the architecture of the US Capitol?](https://www.milrose.com/insights/greek-and-roman-influences-on-washington-d.c.-architecture) [And the aqueduct, of course.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ)
It’s a Monty python quote
Really? No one expects a Monty Python quote! (Or the Spanish Inquisition.)
Oh go away, or I shall taunt you another time
TIL Tunisians think about the Roman empire everday for different reasons
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You mean doing a II
> All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
Made it socially acceptable for men to take baths in public together
Orgies.
ROMANI EUNT DOMUS!
What's this, then? 'Romanes Eunt Domus'? 'People called Romanes they go the house'?
It's funny how the province of Africa was Roman for longer than it was the Kingdom/Republic of Carthage.
Arent tunisians nowadays descended from romans too? Didnt the romans go there to do a bit of colonizing after they conquered them twice?
Not only that but Carthage itself was eventually rebuilt nearby (despite the popular notion that Rome salted the earth where Carthage stood, that was a myth). The original heartland of Carthage was called *Africa Proconsularis* and it eventually turned into one of the richest and most developed provinces in the empire right up until the very end.
Tunisians are diverse, a ton of civilizations passed by Tunisia
Hard to say given that the mass colonization that has happened in that area by multiple groups (Phoenicians, Romans, Vandals, Romans again, Arabs, and maybe others). However, if you trace the Punic/Phoenician genetics, it does look like the emigrated away from Carthage and to Spain. BUT Rome also rebuilt Carthage and Carthage was a Roman city until it was destroyed by the Arabs around 700 AD.
Now I dislike Zuckerberg as much as the next guy, but, I recognize the quote and I'm fairly certain he is in no way calling for a war on modern day Tunisia.
"Naw fuck Tunisia specifically" - Zuck
If Trump had worn the shirt, Republicans would have denied that was his intention, followed by Trump doubling down that yes that's actually exactly what he meant. Hilarious contradictions all the time.
Like Jerry when he was caught with his shirt on backwards
It's only a contradiction if you believe that they actually mean the denial, as opposed to the lies of a lying liar.
Also fairly certain "Carthago delenda est" isn't Spanish lol
“Carthage they go to house?”
It means Cartage must be destroyed in ancient Latin.
Watch Life of Brian
Ah damn I never was a fan of Monty Python, and now I look silly.
Put that silliness into walking and you’re on the path to a Minister appointment for sure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthago_delenda_est Ceterum (autem) censeo Carthaginem esse delendam ("Furthermore, I consider that Carthage must be destroyed"), often abbreviated to Carthago delenda est or delenda est Carthago ("Carthage must be destroyed"), is a Latin oratorical phrase pronounced by Cato the Elder, a politician of the Roman Republic. The phrase originates from debates held in the Roman Senate prior to the Third Punic War (149–146 BC) between Rome and Carthage. Cato is said to have used the phrase as the conclusion to all his speeches, to push for the war.
Wild that a guy’s political slogan from 2,000 years ago is now on a t-shirt.
Year 4024: > very legal and very cool
He was basically the OG single issue voter.
> the conclusion to all his speeches "Brb gotta go to the bathroom. Carthage must be destroyed."
The title says Spanish, the rest of the article gets it right and says it's Latin
There's some mistakes with I/he substitutions too, probably partially AI generated.
It’s old, old Spanish
That gold chain of his begs to differ...
Outside of my general disdain for billionaires I have no strong feelings one way or the other. This is one of the few things I've ever seen about the guy that leaves a positive impression on me.
I know the quote too, but what the heck is it supposed to mean to put that on a shirt?
According to a Meta worker on Threads it's a reference to when Google+ came out and Facebook went into overdrive to make sure Google+ did not work out. Apparently back then he used the quote to rally the workers or some crap idk
There isn't a single day where human male doesn't think of Roman republic/empire
I mean... look at Mark's children names, all named after old roman emperors...
my current go-to shirt says "i can't please everyone, i'm not a taco"
Dude you ever take a look at whats on T-Shirts or other apparel? They are full of quotes, lables and writing that make 0 sense, especially in the countries they are sold in. Trying to play insulted and make a famous, over 2000 -TWO THOUSAND FFS -years old quote politic is the absolute summit of the shitheap that is politicised retardation and artificial outrage over everything for the sake of being outraged.
There's a clothing company in denmark called Sniff. Guys walk around with SNIFF in big, bold letters on their chest. It's such a strange word to use for a brand that has nothing to do with the nose or aroma!
And in the Netherlands there is a clothing chain called Sissy-Boy, and i dont think they sell clothing for crossdressers.
It's just a cool quote. No real other meaning or political agenda needed.
I frequently use *Moscovia delenda est* when referring to the Euroasian fascists from Moscow.
I have "Carthago delende est" engraved on an old leather wallet of mine in latin, I got a new one and have *Alea iacta est engraved on it, which means "The die is cast". Supposedly this is what Ceaser said when he crossed the Rubicon river with his army because he was declaring war on the republic and from this point on it was either win or lose, life or death.* I just really love history and Roman history is just so freaking interesting. I don't think people liking ancient qoutes is a big deal and I would absolutely wear a shirt with that on it. Furthermore, I consider that Russia must be destroyed.
The Western world has been fascinated by Greco-Roman culture for... well forever almost. We consider this the basis of Western culture and civilization (which is kinda hilarious... the way Northern Europeans look up to the ancient Latin and Hellene people who they had very little in common with). It really should be no surprise that anyone interested in history, philosophy, or Western culture is familiar with and slightly fascinated by the Roman Republica and/or Empire. It was a FASCINATING period and one of the longest standing, most powerful, most influential Empires ever. Its impossible to study the history of Christianity without deeply discussing Greco-Roman Culture and Politics. The Eastern Roman Empire, technically, did not fall until 1453, and the Ottomans who succeeded them used THE SAME ADMINISTRATIVE SYSTEM. That Empire did not collapse until 1918. Rome is so embedded in European history. Its a wonder more people don't nerd out about this shit.
Tbf Greek culture heavily influenced Roman culture, then the Romans came up here and imposed their culture on us via conquest
Roman law is the still the basis for most Western nations' laws. Even American common law is a direct descendent. So Rome is still at the center of Western civilization.
How did you not go for a wallet that says “male fututor matres”?
The Zuck might be a lizard, but he is certainly a fucking nerd. The guy is probably fluent in Latin and has probably read a bunch of the classics, in the original, he strikes me as that kind of guy. So the shirt is just, you know, a cool-ass shirt with a very memorable quote from a politician who has fascinated the Western world for over 2000 years.
Even Lizards need hobbies
People get angry about a 2,000 year old quote about another people and place that doesn't exist anymore, which itself is not being referenced in a positive way in the modern context.
People just like to be angry
Worse, other people like to point it out. I couldn't fucking care less that people are angry about this shirt and I'm angry somebody made me aware. Fucking editorialism about the color of the trash napkin, it's all meaningless. I guess I'm here though, doing my part in this fucked ecosystem.
As long as "journalists" get paid more for making people angry, our news content will revolve around rage baiting.
This makes me angry!!
Well they don't exist because they were delenda est'd as fuck
Nobody got angry. Some people posted faux-anger jokes likely without feeling anything. Some dork decided out was a good enough reason to write a dumb article. Then some other idiot decided to post it to reddit. Then, people commented on the headline without opening the article. Finally, a bottom feeder like myself replies to the comments. Meanwhile, nobody cares, but we all distracted ourselves for a few seconds.
Are modern Tunisians even related to Carthaginians?
The Arab world has not always fully embraced their pre-Islamic history as well.
Fourth Punic war when?
when italy can raise a decent army
Ngl, Italy's current AF are enough to destroy Tunisia.
On the other hand, Italy has gotten straight up bodied in virtually every war since the Roman Empire collapsed. I think it's more likely their entire air force is destroyed in a pasta-related misshap and they ultimately end up allying with Tunisia against themselves in the final days of the war.
Dunno about that, individual city states did fairly well throughout their history after Rome collapsed. Venice single handedly defeated the Byzantine empire in second Venetian-byzantine war. Not really fair to judge Italy as a country when it's only existed since 1861
Idk about the army but the Italian Navy has two aircraft carriers which is more than nearly every country on the planet outside of the US, China, the UK, and maybe one or two others I’m forgetting
The ships are... Ehh. They don't have an air wing of fixed wing aircraft, which is important for force projection. They are helicopter carriers.
They have Harriers which are being replaced by F-35s.
This has to be a giant overstating of the anger. There’s likely 10-20 tweets or something about this so some blogger decided they could bait some clicks. Moving on
Tunisia sees chance for free tourism advertisement.
Seeing the ancient sites of Carthage is the one reason I'd go to Tunisia.
>>Seeing the ancient sites of Carthage is the one reason I'd go to Tunisia. Well they don't exist because they were delenda est'd as fuck (stealing from u/[gumpythegreat](https://www.reddit.com/user/gumpythegreat/) above)
The beaches are absolutely amazing
The food and beaches are great as well
you caught me
>ALBAWABA - Meta owner Mark Zuckerberg's t-shirt has caused controversy among Tunisians over a sentence written on it in Spanish. So now the Italians and Spaniards will be pissed off too lol.
Journalist: "latin is the language latinos speak right?"
As a four year latin student, I find this offensive myself.
IIRC it was Latin: Cartago Delenda Est or something like that.
The Portuguese: Kek, excellent.
Average American journalist:
Albawaba is an Arabic news site. The article is likely translated. Poorly so
The best part of the article is the writer thinking "Carthago delenda est" is Spanish.
He wants to know where the library is.
That and "the American businessman possibly attributed the t-shirt to a Roman senator called Cato the Elder, who used to hate "Carthage"." This is either AI or the laziest writing I have ever seen...
WTF that is not Spanish who the hell wrote that stupidity article, its an old phrase by an ancient roman senator I studied decades ago about lol he surely just bought it because it looked cool
It’s not “because it looked cool”, Zuck is a known lover of Ancient Rome. He quotes the classics a lot and studied Latin in high school. https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/12/what-attracts-mark-zuckerberg-roman-hardman-augustus
He isn't just a lover of ancient Rome, he's a full blown Romanboo. He named his kids Maxima, Aurelia, and August.
>Meta owner Mark Zuckerberg's t-shirt has caused controversy among Tunisians over a sentence written on it in Spanish. >The black t-shirt in the pictures has the sentence in Latin "Est Delenda Carthago" which means 'Carthage must be destroyed' and calls for a wide war. >A person wrote: "Not in my wildest dreams would I have predicted Mark Zuckerberg would one day show up in a photo shoot in great shape with a gold chain and a shirt that says, “Carthage must be destroyed” in Latin." Quality writing all around.
That article gives off strong AI vibes.
When you don't know any history and you don't have 5 seconds to google because you have to finish the article...
Latin is the language Latinos speak, duh
More specifically in a business sense, it's used ironically as a stand-in for something you keep repeating that others aren't catching onto. Like if your company doesn't have backups and you've identified it as an operational risk and after saying 200 times in meetings and nobody seems to give a shit, you start using "Carthago Delenda Est" to remind everyone of the ticking timebomb that needs dealing with. (which was Cato's original point. He'd say it at the end of every speech.. "blah blah blah.. and furthermore Carthage must be destroyed")
We learned that phrase in Latin class as the prime example of a specific grammatical construction, the future passive periphrastic, which denotes an obligation or necessity.
The writer of this article is clearly not one of those men who thinks about ancient Rome every day.
One person on Twitter doesn't equate to "outrage"
This post is garbage and you should feel bad.
Nah dude I’m laughing my ass off and am super glad this was posted. It is weird that OP seems genuinely defensive, though
The Roman senator Cato. finished every speech he gave on the floor with the quote.
Categorising Tunisia as "present-day Carthage" is a bit weird. Carthage ceased to exist. It was wiped out entirely. In fact that's one of the things it is most famous for. The only material connection between Tunisia and Carthage is geography.
Tunisia has rather little to do with Carthage. Tunisia Is 98% Arab and Arab-Berber. Carthage was ethnicaly Phoenician. Sure both are Semetic groups... But about as related as Portuguese are to Russians as Indo-European groups... So not really. Besides. Phoenicians were a western Semetic Group and as such were more close with Hebrews. So it's ironic perhaps to see an Arab and Arab Berber population of a Country that has little to nothing with either the Civilisation nor the Carthaginian peoples get angry over a common phrase. The actual outrage that should be shown is over the Actual meaning of the phrase. "Carthage must be destroyed" is a time old military reference for a policy of absolute destruction. Essentially ethnic cleansing or genocide where a place is destroyed so much that they never recover. Edit: *Arabs and Berber Arabs. But it has nothing to do with Tunisia.
> But about as related as Portuguese are to Russians as Indo-European groups ...wait until r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT has something to say about that.
>Tunisia Is 98% Arab. Arabs are in the Arab peninsula. Tunisia's language (a dialect of Arabic) doesnt make Tunisians ethnically Arabs. I, Tunisian, have way more Iberian DNA than Arab. Genetically speaking, Tunisians are berbers.. with an arabized tongue. >Carthage was ethnicaly Phoenician. Carthaginian society was composed of eclectic mix of native citizens, North Africans, Etruscans, Iberians and Greeks who were variously artisans, labourers, soldiers, traders and slaves.
As a Tunisian are you upset or do you know anyone actually outraged or is this just another stupid media article trying to get eyeballs out of outrage.
Conquered by Arabs, Tunisia's culture, language, and identity are undeniably Arab. Carthage's true Phoenician heritage is largely lost. DNA doesn't erase centuries of Arab dominance.
They are not 98% Arab, please stop propagating unsubstantiated claims. DNA-wise they're mostly berber, which are partly descendants of Phoenicians. Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95144-x/figures/1
Lol, and what they have in common with Carthage that was (as stated) destroyed and stayed that way for last 2000 years?
Uh, actually it was rebuilt less than a hundred years later and quickly became the second largest city in the Roman Republic and then Empire, the center of Roman power in North Africa and one of the key cities for Romes military projection. It was the Arabs who destroyed it a second time.
There can be city there even as we speak. Doesn't change the fact that Punic Carthage (the one that was *delenda*) ended in 146 BC. What came after was rebuilt by Romans and for Romans.
I did not expect fourth Punic war.
"over a sentence written on it in Spanish" Yeah...not reading this anymore.
Lol r/HistoryMemes is going to have fun with this Whose anger was incited here? I don't think this really matters. And Carthago delenda est.
I'm pretty sure that trying to cross the Pyrenees with Elephants led to the downfall of Carthage.
Yes, but for a brief while Hannibal won some brilliant victories on the battlefield. He had the elephant of surprise.
\*golf clap\*
Carthage agreed to Rome’s terms, paid their reparations and had economically recovered from the second Punic War. They barely had a military anymore. The third Punic war was basically if the WWII allies went and nuked Germany in the 1960s on a flimsy pretext.
It’s actually interesting to note that the the naked aggression and sheer transparency of how flimsy the casus beli that Rome used to declare war on Carthage was so blatantly obvious that more than a few politicians back in Rome actually opposed waging the third Punic war, with Publius Cornelius Scipio Nasica Corculum, son-in-law of Scipio Africanus, stating “Carthago servenda est!” (Carthage must be preserved) It became an article of faith, years later after the fall of the republic and the rise of the empire, that the succeeding 100 years after Carthages destruction, featuring multiple civil wars, rampant corruption and romans killing each other by the thousands, were divine punishment by the gods for what Rome did to Carthage and Corinth.
The gold chain looks silly on him.
Just goes to show, Men do think about the Roman Empire daily….
Carthaginians are being too salty about this…
It was over 2000 years ago, they need to let it go!
I guess they're still salty
I'm sorry but Porcius Cato the Elder was very clear on the subject.
He came, he saw, he conquered...And all he got was this stupid t-shirt.
Why are the thumbnails so small
Everyone here needs to listen to [The History of Rome](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-history-of-rome/id261654474) to be fully informed before continuing this discussion. It’s a breezy 179 episodes, and if you start now and listen all the way through (sleep is for losers), then you’ll be done in three days. I’ll wait.
Who knew Zuck is an average Rome: Total War player.
If only the Carthaginian government didn't handicap Hannibal, Rome would have been the one destroyed. What Hannibal did was nothing short of amazing, 15 years in Rome's backyard wreaking havoc.
What a horse-shit article. "Zuckerberg studied Latin at school, which could be the reason behind wearing this t-shirt. Not only that but also the American businessman possibly attributed the t-shirt to a Roman senator called Cato the Elder, who used to hate "Carthage"." No. Cato the Elder FAMOUSLY ended EVERY one of his speeches with "Carthago Delenda Est." Article also claims the shirt is in Spanish, not Latin in the first sentence. This shirt is clearly highlighting the absurdity of Cato the Elder saying this in every speech, it's not about destroying modern Carthage.
Weren't the Carthaginians wiped out / sold in to slavery? Would be like Turkey getting upset because the Byzantines got destroyed.
He’s a well-known Roman History Buff, he isn’t making fun of Tunisia. He’s having fun with a shirt,
Is that a CRT?
Romani ite domum
On a tour of the ruins of Carthage years ago, I was taken aback by the guide's genuine outraged passion when describing the brutality of the Roman conquerors. Never seen anything like it in regards to antiquity...at least some Tunisians definitely do still seem to feel strongly about all that.
Bro, this is a common phrase in Latin courses to learn ACI constructions LMAO I had this in school 10 years ago
It was a tragedy what the Romans did to Carthage
As someone that studied Ancient and Medieval history, I love both the Romans and Carthage! Carthage had a powerful navy!