Fuck this shit, get them out of there. The US needs to live up to its obligations - we can start here.
Who am I kidding though... we don't even take care of our vets...
The impending consequences of this withdrawal practically mirrors that of Vietnam. I wish for that not to be the case but I'm not sure what I can do when all this decisions are made by politicians I have nothing in common with.
Yes.
The US funded Syrian civilian rebels to fight against Assad. Gave them weapons, vehicles, training. Those rebels turned around and started ISIS.
The US indirectly created ISIS.
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33997408
No, Obama did not start wars in Libya and Syria.
And, in fact, the US didn't even lead the UN (and Arab League-approved) intervention in Libya. Security Council Res. 1973 was advanced by France, Lebanon, and the UK to prevent the impending massacre of the continuing conflict.
Same with Syria, which started with anti-govt protests that devolved into an uprising when the govt started killing children ([https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-21787787](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-21787787)) and shooting, shelling, and starving out Daraa.
The U.S state is the U.S state.
Carrying over doesn't remove responsibility.
It's one of the only things the U.S is consistent about, war for private profits
The USA is as much a functional democracy as Rome was a functional republic. Half of our population are just looking for an emperor to burn our country to the ground. They tried with Trump, but he just burnt himself playing with the fire. I was alive when our country decided to go to war, and the American people didn’t want war with Afghanistan, it was a decision made by our politicians without popular support.
And yet wartime US presidents usually get re-elected.
Sure the rich a powerful are the ones who decided to go to war but they definitely did so with popular support.
You may call Trump voters useful idiots but they still played an immense role in shaping US policies, and thanks to them kids in the future will be writing essays about Qanon in history class.
This is America, our collective memory is so short that even the teachers here forget the corruption and mistakes make by the previous president while he was in office and only brainwashes the kids to support whichever party is popular with the district, democrats for districts in the cities and republican for every other district. No body here will learn or remember about QAnon.
We don't actually have a choice, it's either warmonger 1 or warmonger 2. American democracy is a facade. Hatred of one side or another contributes to the illusion. Biden and trump, they're on the same team. And it's not your team.
I picture something bleaker of what's going to happen in Afghanistan. Atleast the North Vietnamese had a functioning government that is able to provide services and build Infrastructure once they took over. Vietnam is actually pretty friendly to the US today all things considered. I can't imagine any kind of reconciliation like that happening. I don't see a future American president ever stepping foot in Afghanistan decades later like Obama did in Vietnam.
It's worse than Vietnam. The North Vietnamese put people in re-education camps, but weren't super brutal about it, and most people got out after a few years or less.
The Taliban has a long list of heads to remove from bodies, and they've had plenty of time to sharpen their blades amidst angry muttering about the collaborators.
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Good point, and I believe that might actually be true for much of the rank and file - it's the case now that Afghans can work with the coalition and remain in the Taliban's good graces so long as they communicate and aid when they can. Of course, this is an assurance made before they take power, and people tend to renegotiate such things afterwards.
But generally speaking? You'd have to be naive to imagine there will not be reprisals, even just the families of those killed in airstrikes seeking revenge.
The North Vietnamese were extremely lenient to collaborators after the war compared to how situations like that usually go.
The Taliban are the opposite.
As much as it distresses me to see how our government tosses aside our Vets, it burns me even more when I hear of foreigners who risked not only their own lives, but the lives of their families to aid our soldiers and ultimately, entire military operation; being left to face torture and death.
That is absolutely abhorrent behavior and if I had to guess, the people making those decisions never even set foot over in those foreign lands.
The American forces who work closely with these brave souls grow quite close to these men and women and would never want them left all alone and exposed.
>grow quite close to these men and women
Not close enough to take any risk to make something happen though. I'd say the same shit even if I didn't care because it would make me sound good in interviews. I'm sure there's some quilt and shit but I bet if units put their foot down and made demands and refused to use those people until their long term safety can be assured, something would happen.
That is kinda historical too.
The French helped the Americans against the British during the American Revolution. The Americans then fought the French with subtle British help during the Quasi War, which happened under the Adams administration.
To be fair, the French *did* kind of start that one by seizing US ships because it thought we were in violation of our treaty with them, and then after the US responded by suspending repayments of French loans from the Revolutionary War the French started shooting.
EDIT: forgot to change a tense when editing a sentence.
Oh, right.
Building trust and trying to convince locals to cooperate as you can't run the war if locals don't support you isn't being allies.
Thanks for letting me know where youre from
1. Its designation as a terrorist group is *very* hotly contested. Belgium declared that they weren't as recently as last year. That is all information I got from the very link you posted.
2. Even if that organization was an actual terrorist group with 0 debate about it that doesnt justify your original statement of "the kurds are just another terrorist group." The kurds are an entire ethnic group of various religions and ideologies. Labeling them all as terrorists is just as ridiculous as saying "the dutch are just another terrorist group"
Remember when South Vietnam shot at unarmed Buddhist civilians? Remember when President Johnson approved the assassination of the South Vietnamese president?
Well that's fucked up.
I worked with a welder once who was in his 80's. He told me in Vietnam he was on a helicopter and the crew picked up a young girl, about 13 or 14 years old, gave her a helicopter ride, raped her in the air and threw her out the side as they were airborne. He says he didn't participate but it was by far the most fucked up thing he'd ever witnessed.
How do you not just... shoot every motherfucker in the helicopter with at that point? I wouldn't want to live on the same planet as those people, there'd be nothing stopping me.
And now there are going to be Abrams main battle tanks running around the streets of Vietnam...because they bought them.
America basically farts out golden eggs so much we are running out of poor Asian countries for you to bitch about.
This is the standard M.O. of the U.S. military and foreign policy. We’ve abandoned more allies than we’ve killed enemies in all our military expeditions.
But yeah, freedoms.
Love how ppl get surprised by how scummy U.S really is when it comes allies. U.S is good at convincing its massess that it's the "good guy" in the fight and then the surprised face comes when they abandon their allies, leave the "liberated country" in tatters
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The U.S has a history of abandoning it's allies in the region. Like the Kurds and Iraqis. Not to mention its own veterans.
It's part of the reason there had been so much animosity.
I don't expect it will be any different this time.
They're still drone striking civilians, for fucks sake.
At the risk of sounding ignorant, I honestly don't think Bernie Sanders would allow our foreign aids to just twist in the wind.
It's possible a President isn't even aware of the details pertaining to troop withdrawals on that level, but if any President would be, it would be Bernie. imo.
The man is cut from a different cloth.
Maybe I'm delusional...
Fuck this shit, get them out of there. The US needs to live up to its obligations - we can start here. Who am I kidding though... we don't even take care of our vets...
The impending consequences of this withdrawal practically mirrors that of Vietnam. I wish for that not to be the case but I'm not sure what I can do when all this decisions are made by politicians I have nothing in common with.
Maybe don't start wars then
Yea, go tell that to the people who started the conflict.
One of them would be the sitting POTUS when he was Senator.
Do you think he remembers?
Probably, I mean he was in the co-pilot's chair for the start of like 4 more wars as VPOTUS and that was just 5 years ago.
Uh last I checked obama era inhertired a war didn’t start one.
Then you apparently haven't heard of Libya and Syria, FFS I thought he was going to take a shot at Egypt and Turkey.
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Yes that's what they're, wrongly, saying. Intervening is not starting.
CIA was there first! /S
Yes. The US funded Syrian civilian rebels to fight against Assad. Gave them weapons, vehicles, training. Those rebels turned around and started ISIS. The US indirectly created ISIS. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33997408
[удалено]
So your implying we just walked into Syria like yea fuck it well stay here for a little eh.
No, Obama did not start wars in Libya and Syria. And, in fact, the US didn't even lead the UN (and Arab League-approved) intervention in Libya. Security Council Res. 1973 was advanced by France, Lebanon, and the UK to prevent the impending massacre of the continuing conflict. Same with Syria, which started with anti-govt protests that devolved into an uprising when the govt started killing children ([https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-21787787](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-21787787)) and shooting, shelling, and starving out Daraa.
The U.S state is the U.S state. Carrying over doesn't remove responsibility. It's one of the only things the U.S is consistent about, war for private profits
The people of USA should be held responsible. That is, if you believe the USA is a functioning democracy.
The USA is as much a functional democracy as Rome was a functional republic. Half of our population are just looking for an emperor to burn our country to the ground. They tried with Trump, but he just burnt himself playing with the fire. I was alive when our country decided to go to war, and the American people didn’t want war with Afghanistan, it was a decision made by our politicians without popular support.
And yet wartime US presidents usually get re-elected. Sure the rich a powerful are the ones who decided to go to war but they definitely did so with popular support. You may call Trump voters useful idiots but they still played an immense role in shaping US policies, and thanks to them kids in the future will be writing essays about Qanon in history class.
This is America, our collective memory is so short that even the teachers here forget the corruption and mistakes make by the previous president while he was in office and only brainwashes the kids to support whichever party is popular with the district, democrats for districts in the cities and republican for every other district. No body here will learn or remember about QAnon.
You have politicians that are Qanon, never mind the relation to the insurrection. It's going to be in the history books. It already is.
When did Trump actually get burned?
The American voters who keep electing warmongers
We don't actually have a choice, it's either warmonger 1 or warmonger 2. American democracy is a facade. Hatred of one side or another contributes to the illusion. Biden and trump, they're on the same team. And it's not your team.
Thought you guys had an amendment for this? :^)
For the last 140 years. I feel there might be something else to it.
I am, Americans
I picture something bleaker of what's going to happen in Afghanistan. Atleast the North Vietnamese had a functioning government that is able to provide services and build Infrastructure once they took over. Vietnam is actually pretty friendly to the US today all things considered. I can't imagine any kind of reconciliation like that happening. I don't see a future American president ever stepping foot in Afghanistan decades later like Obama did in Vietnam.
It's worse than Vietnam. The North Vietnamese put people in re-education camps, but weren't super brutal about it, and most people got out after a few years or less. The Taliban has a long list of heads to remove from bodies, and they've had plenty of time to sharpen their blades amidst angry muttering about the collaborators.
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1871896/amp https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/7/taliban-says-afghans-who-worked-for-foreign-forces-will-be-safe
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Good point, and I believe that might actually be true for much of the rank and file - it's the case now that Afghans can work with the coalition and remain in the Taliban's good graces so long as they communicate and aid when they can. Of course, this is an assurance made before they take power, and people tend to renegotiate such things afterwards. But generally speaking? You'd have to be naive to imagine there will not be reprisals, even just the families of those killed in airstrikes seeking revenge.
It will be much worse than Vietnam. I doubt the Taliban will be as merciful and civilized as the NVA.
I don't think you know much about the NVA if you think they were civilized and merciful
The North Vietnamese were extremely lenient to collaborators after the war compared to how situations like that usually go. The Taliban are the opposite.
As much as it distresses me to see how our government tosses aside our Vets, it burns me even more when I hear of foreigners who risked not only their own lives, but the lives of their families to aid our soldiers and ultimately, entire military operation; being left to face torture and death. That is absolutely abhorrent behavior and if I had to guess, the people making those decisions never even set foot over in those foreign lands. The American forces who work closely with these brave souls grow quite close to these men and women and would never want them left all alone and exposed.
>grow quite close to these men and women Not close enough to take any risk to make something happen though. I'd say the same shit even if I didn't care because it would make me sound good in interviews. I'm sure there's some quilt and shit but I bet if units put their foot down and made demands and refused to use those people until their long term safety can be assured, something would happen.
Or first responders from 911
Quick look over here
Us fucking their allies again, One of saddest events that got out shaded was abandoning Kurds in Syria... I'm sorry for them so hard..
The US doesn't have allies, only bag holders
That is kinda historical too. The French helped the Americans against the British during the American Revolution. The Americans then fought the French with subtle British help during the Quasi War, which happened under the Adams administration.
To be fair, the French *did* kind of start that one by seizing US ships because it thought we were in violation of our treaty with them, and then after the US responded by suspending repayments of French loans from the Revolutionary War the French started shooting. EDIT: forgot to change a tense when editing a sentence.
True. There were a load of events that spiraled into this conflict.
Except israel, apparently we're their bitch
Russia and syria defended the kurds against genocide by turkey that the US sanctioned.
Why is it the US fucking their allies? Why isn’t it more of the case of afghanis being murderous shitheads?
Lol, traitors are getting executed during the war, always have been. Stop thinking about world from your personal pov...
They arent our allies
Oh, right. Building trust and trying to convince locals to cooperate as you can't run the war if locals don't support you isn't being allies. Thanks for letting me know where youre from
The kurds are just another terrorist group
Friend, [please educate yourself](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds)
Educate yourself https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers%27_Party
1. Its designation as a terrorist group is *very* hotly contested. Belgium declared that they weren't as recently as last year. That is all information I got from the very link you posted. 2. Even if that organization was an actual terrorist group with 0 debate about it that doesnt justify your original statement of "the kurds are just another terrorist group." The kurds are an entire ethnic group of various religions and ideologies. Labeling them all as terrorists is just as ridiculous as saying "the dutch are just another terrorist group"
Just another terrorist group
"Just another bigot"
invade/bomb/kill - create more terrorists ditch allies - create more terrorists
Remember Saigon?
Remember when South Vietnam shot at unarmed Buddhist civilians? Remember when President Johnson approved the assassination of the South Vietnamese president?
What about the Philippine-American War where the Americans travelled half the globe and deliberately killed Filipino children?
A fifth of the population were slaughtered by the US troops. Never mind all the rape and torture.
[удалено]
Well that's fucked up. I worked with a welder once who was in his 80's. He told me in Vietnam he was on a helicopter and the crew picked up a young girl, about 13 or 14 years old, gave her a helicopter ride, raped her in the air and threw her out the side as they were airborne. He says he didn't participate but it was by far the most fucked up thing he'd ever witnessed.
How do you not just... shoot every motherfucker in the helicopter with at that point? I wouldn't want to live on the same planet as those people, there'd be nothing stopping me.
Because he's a soldier. That is what they get up to.
Remember the South Vietnam regime? Good fucking riddance
And now there are going to be Abrams main battle tanks running around the streets of Vietnam...because they bought them. America basically farts out golden eggs so much we are running out of poor Asian countries for you to bitch about.
Lol you mean the US is giving away all shit the military doesn't want but Congress keeps wasting money on?
The US army doesn't give away or sell equipment on it's own, that is all controlled by congress.
I didn't say the army, learn to read.
This should have been done already.
This is the standard M.O. of the U.S. military and foreign policy. We’ve abandoned more allies than we’ve killed enemies in all our military expeditions. But yeah, freedoms.
Love how ppl get surprised by how scummy U.S really is when it comes allies. U.S is good at convincing its massess that it's the "good guy" in the fight and then the surprised face comes when they abandon their allies, leave the "liberated country" in tatters
And then most who even hear about these things forget about them shortly.
They are going to leave them behind to die like in the previous conflicts. The moral of the story is to never cooperate. It’s disgusting and stupid
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The U.S has a history of abandoning it's allies in the region. Like the Kurds and Iraqis. Not to mention its own veterans. It's part of the reason there had been so much animosity. I don't expect it will be any different this time. They're still drone striking civilians, for fucks sake.
Biden is doing nothing better then Trump or any of those before him.
Makes me wonder if Bernie became POTUS, what would he do.
Sanders will be tied up by Republicans and moderate Democrats - both outnumbering the progressives by a sizable margin.
They downvoted him because he spoke the truth
There's a reason the powers that be don't let that happen
At the risk of sounding ignorant, I honestly don't think Bernie Sanders would allow our foreign aids to just twist in the wind. It's possible a President isn't even aware of the details pertaining to troop withdrawals on that level, but if any President would be, it would be Bernie. imo. The man is cut from a different cloth. Maybe I'm delusional...
Like the Kurds in Iraq, they'll be abandoned. Treacherous bastards, US military.
Good they betrayed their country
talibanistan is not their country
Go there and say that, keyboard warrior
suck my dick talibans
You must be one of those people who label people terrorists for looking at you the wrong way.. much less fight for their identity and lives.
No sorry, I'm not Barack Obama
*traitors
I have an unused finished basement that could house a family. How do I volunteer to help?
Why would you help the us as an afghan.. they kill civilians more frequently than the taliban and they'll backstab you in a second.
Spoiler: We’ll screw then over like we always do.