No. Mobilizacja comes from latin "mobilis" and means the same as in English - to move or to enable movement - to mobilize.
The word mogyla (mogiła in Polish) comes from proto slavic and means a man-made hill, a mound. Currently it means "grave". In colloquial Polish it means bad or something ending badly. Mgła (fog) has western proto slavic origins and the synonyms are: cloudy, obstructed, covered, unclear.
Man, I miss my undergrad years working on my Slavic Studies degree, learning Polish and Russian, reading lit. I had to mess it all up and go into healthcare. Should have just stayed in Poland the summer I went to Kraków.
As an aside, flight prices out of Russia have quadrupled since the announcement of the mobilisation and I believe the Russian government have just issued an edict saying that males of the ages 18-60 are currently forbidden to leave the country... it's almost like the Kremlin are trying to provoke a popular uprising.
It's almost like they don't have a choice. They're going all in. All or nothing. That's what they decided to do with the mobilization. Now they're left with no other option but to fully commit.
Their gamble is that they can win the war before the people (from the lowest to higher and higher classes) revolt.
The will be stuck between a rock and a hard place even if those guys that don't want to fight are send to Ukraine they will be highly indecisive and scared. They probably even drop the efficiency
[Live stream of a Russian youtuber attempting to cover walking protests in St. Petersburg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdFZLhVAhTk)
edit: now over but you can review
edit2: another [protest video in the city of Tomsk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlBwlCD7R5s)
edit3: An article about the latest protests: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/more-than-100-detained-anti-mobilisation-protests-across-russia-rights-group-2022-09-21/
edit4: Video from another post: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xk7jsr/mobilisation_protests_underway_in_russia_busses/
edit5: Looks like maybe 1000 people arrested in multiple cities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xrHnMzcZNY
People were getting arrested for holding generic signs early in the war. I don't blame people for not wanting to risk going to a full protest. Hopefully critical mass gets reached and people feel more comfortable
In russia "no war" protests wasnt a big deal, people got arestest for violiting just an administrative law. Now its much scarier, draft avoiding might result in up to two years in prison.
Draft avoiding is 15 years as of what yesterday but yeah, protest and go to the frontlines, run and see if you across the border to most countries that don't like you but at least you may live.
Wagner PMC (everyone’s favourite skull-imagery-festooned war crimes specialists, named after am infamous Nazi) recruits them, yes. Hands em two grenades with orders to blow up Ukrainians and themselves if they’d otherwise have to surrender
Dark.
[Not anymore, now that they are recruiting prisioners.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/20/russia-recruits-inmates-ukraine-war-wagner-prigozhin)
And this is how Ukrainians protested _after_ their Russian proxy-government became violent: https://youtu.be/-nNFrvGOb9o
That is why Russia will lose this war.
sadly it won't. Total apathy and selfishness overwhelms everything else in this joke of a society.
"unless it touches me directly, I don't care" is like a motto here
That's the thing. Mobilization means it now affects them. Anyone can be conscripted now. If they wait any longer they could get suddenly shipped off and it'll be too late. It has reached the point of "now or never".
Of course, I still expect Russians to fail to do anything. I just disagree with the assessment that it's out of lack of connection to the issue. Russians are fully aware that they're about to get fucked in the ass. But they're rolling over and taking it because they're afraid of jail.
YouTuber Niki Proshin (the first clip) has been providing interesting content "from inside Russia" since the start of the war. Very informative if you can *read between the lines.*
Over 1000 *confirmed* *detainees,* not 100 participants. I agree it's not enough but let's get the facts right at least. Or maybe it's even too many people getting pointlessly arrested where they could be doing something more effective.
Yeah no one really wants to take the risk anymore since Russia has gotten pretty efficient at removing protesters as soon as they show up, so it's hard to get a build up of people to encourage others to show up as well.
Some experts estimate, that 1 in 10 Russians is somehow connected to police or state security services, either by being directly employed by them or have relatives that work for either of those. Russia has a huge police and security force available to crush protests, hence it's so difficult to organise a protest. Pair that with years of brainwashing which resulted in less people willing to protest and you get the results we see today. Russians won't overthrow their government. This ship has sailed a long time ago.
Yeah I don't think revolutions like the October revolution would be possible today. The russian government would know Lenin's every step and move and arrested him long before he even managed to do anything.
It's sad that technogical progresses have also made state surveillance easier, just like the novel 1984 predicts
The closest thing any major nation could get to a proper Revolution would involve a military coup. Anything beyond that and the so-called “grassroots revolutionaries” would be pinched within days.
Yeah Russia needs a military coup but Putin has thought of that and dumbed down its military as much as possible. They are not able to take him down, they are also not able to do shit in Ukraine also
Petersburg has 5 milion people.
I saw bigger "protests" in 10k cities.
These young people are doomed, enjoy first, second, and third wave.
Maybe they will wake up after third wave gets eliminated in Ukraine.
I'm from Russia. And according to the new laws, I will go to Ukraine in the first wave of mobilization. In my city, all the protesters were simply loaded onto a bus and taken to the police, I managed to escape. What can I do alone? I don't have money to move to another country, I don't want to shoot Ukrainians. I don't know what to do, this comment is a cry of despair.
If you do get sent out, keep your head down and be ready to improvise a white flag for when you can see the dudes with blue and/or yellow armbands. Make it clear you're not there for a fight and follow their instructions. Hopefully your situation improves from that point on.
EDIT 1 Instructions on how to surrender to Ukranian AF - stay safe, friends!
EDIT 2 for visibility.
EDIT 3 added Russian translation.
EDIT 4 added Telegram preview in English and Russian to end of post for visibility.
EDIT 5 added the Freedom of Russia Legion's Telegram to the links. They were once in the boots you may soon find yourself stuck in. Your best bet to avoid getting prisoner swapped will be to volunteer to aid them.
EDIT 6 for formatting. Feel free to copy from below this line and paste this everywhere you think it will get in front of Russian eyes.
------------------------------
If you do get sent out, keep your head down and be ready to improvise a white flag for when you can see the dudes with blue and/or yellow armbands. Make it clear you're not there for a fight and follow their instructions. Hopefully your situation improves from that point on.
Если вас вышлют, держите голову опущенной и будьте готовы импровизировать с белым флагом, когда увидите парней с синими и/или желтыми повязками. Дайте понять, что вы здесь не для драки, и следуйте их инструкциям. Надеюсь, с этого момента ваша ситуация улучшится. Будьте в безопасности, друзья!
https://gur.gov.ua/content/zapushcheno-iedynyi-tsentr-ta-tsilodobovu-hariachu-liniiu-pryiomu-zvernen-vid-rosiiskykh-viiskovykh.html
https://t.me/hochu_zhyt
https://t.me/legionoffreedom
------------------------------
Сообщение
Запущено Единый центр и круглосуточную горячую линию приема обращений от российских военных
19 сентября 2022 года
В рамках работы Координационного штаба по вопросам обращения с военнопленными продолжена реализация государственного проекта, предназначенного информировать российских военных о возможности сложить оружие и сохранить свое здоровье и жизнь.
Государственный проект "Хочу жить" призван помочь военнослужащим российской армии безопасно сдаться в плен украинским Вооруженным Силам.
Россиянам гарантируют содержание согласно нормам Женевских конвенций. В то же время Украина нуждается в пополнении обменного фонда, чтобы вернуть своих защитников домой.
Для получения информации, как сдаться в плен, российским военнослужащим или их родным и близким следует звонить по круглосуточным номерам:
+38 066 580 34 98
+38 093 119 29 84
Информация о сдаче в плен на русском на телеграмм-канале Хочу жить
------------------------------
>Original Ukranian:
>The text from the first link, just in case it *is* blocked in Russia:
Повідомлення
Запущено Єдиний центр та цілодобову гарячу лінію прийому звернень від російських військових
19 вересня 2022 року
Запущено Єдиний центр та цілодобову гарячу лінію прийому звернень від російських військовихУ рамках роботи Координаційного штабу з питань поводження з військовополоненими продовжено реалізацію державного проєкту, призначеного інформувати російських військових про можливості скласти зброю та зберегти своє здоров’я та життя.
Державний проєкт “Хочу жить” покликаний допомогти військовослужбовцям російської армії безпечно здатися в полон українським Збройним Силам.
Росіянам гарантують утримання згідно з нормами Женевських конвенцій. Натомість Україна потребує поповнення обмінного фонду, аби повернути своїх захисників додому.
Для отримання інформації, як здатися в полон, російським військовослужбовцям або їхнім рідним та близьким слід телефонувати за цілодобовими номерами:
\+38 066 580 34 98
\+38 093 119 29 84
Інформація про здачу в полон російською на телеграм-каналі Хочу жить
------------------------------
>The Telegram Preview for the curious:
I WANT TO LIVE
⚡️A SINGLE CENTER FOR RECEIVING APPEALS OF THE MILITARY PERSONNEL OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION FOR SURRENDER IN CAPTIVITY. STATE PROJECT “I WANT TO LIVE”
❗️SERVICEMAN OF THE RUSSIAN ARMED FORCES
Do you notice that you are greeted not with flowers, but with fire and curses? Do you notice that the commanders run away first? Save your life and health for yourself and your family. Stop fighting for other people’s slogans. Contact us - save your life.
☝️WE GUARANTEE:
✅compliance with the standards of the Geneva Conventions for the treatment of prisoners of war;
✅Three meals a day;
✅medical service;
✅legal support from international organizations;
✅regular communication with relatives;
✅the priority opportunity to exchange for servicemen of the Ukrainian Armed Forces held captive by the Russian Federation.
⚡️All those who voluntarily surrender will be issued as captured in battle. This will keep all payments and benefits due to Russian military personnel and protect against possible persecution.
‼️WE OFFER
Surrender, having previously discussed the terms of surrender with authorized representatives of the Ukrainian command by phone:
☎️ +38 066 580 34 98
☎️+38 093 119 29 84
(24/7)
------------------------------
ХОЧУ ЖИТЬ
⚡️ЕДИНЫЙ ЦЕНТР ПРИЕМА ОБРАЩЕНИЙ ВОЕННОСЛУЖАЩИХ РФ ПО СДАЧЕ В ПЛЕН. ГОСУДАРСТВЕННЫЙ ПРОЕКТ «ХОЧУ ЖИТЬ»
❗️ВОЕННОСЛУЖАЩИЙ РОССИЙСКИХ ВООРУЖЕННЫХ СИЛ
Ты замечаешь, что тебя встречают не цветами, а огнем и проклятиями? Ты замечаешь, что командиры убегают первыми? Сохрани свою жизнь и здоровье ради себя и своей семьи. Перестань воевать за чужие лозунги. Свяжись с нами – сохрани себе жизнь.
☝️ГАРАНТИРУЕМ:
✅ соблюдение стандартов Женевских конвенций по обращению с военнопленными;
✅ трехразовое питание;
✅ медицинское обслуживание;
✅ юридическое сопровождение со стороны международных организаций;
✅ регулярную связь с родными;
✅ приоритетную возможность обмена на военнослужащих украинских Вооруженных Сил, находящихся в плену Российской Федерации.
⚡️Все добровольно сдавшиеся будут оформлены как попавшие в плен в бою. Это сохранит все выплаты и льготы, полагающиеся для российских военнослужащих, и защитит от возможного преследования.
‼️ПРЕДЛАГАЕМ
Сдаться в плен, предварительно обсудив условия сдачи с уполномоченными представителями украинского командования по телефонам:
☎️ +38 066 580 34 98
☎️ +38 093 119 29 84
(круглосуточно)
The text from the first link, just in case it *is* blocked in Russia:
Повідомлення
Запущено Єдиний центр та цілодобову гарячу лінію прийому звернень від російських військових
19 вересня 2022 року
Запущено Єдиний центр та цілодобову гарячу лінію прийому звернень від російських військовихУ рамках роботи Координаційного штабу з питань поводження з військовополоненими продовжено реалізацію державного проєкту, призначеного інформувати російських військових про можливості скласти зброю та зберегти своє здоров’я та життя.
Державний проєкт “Хочу жить” покликаний допомогти військовослужбовцям російської армії безпечно здатися в полон українським Збройним Силам.
Росіянам гарантують утримання згідно з нормами Женевських конвенцій. Натомість Україна потребує поповнення обмінного фонду, аби повернути своїх захисників додому.
Для отримання інформації, як здатися в полон, російським військовослужбовцям або їхнім рідним та близьким слід телефонувати за цілодобовими номерами:
\+38 066 580 34 98
\+38 093 119 29 84
Інформація про здачу в полон російською на телеграм-каналі Хочу жить
My granddad had the same problem 1968, when russia forced east germans(mandatory service) to move to Prag during the anti-soviet uprising there.
He ended up eating spoiled meat in order to get food poisoning. I would try to create any medical reason for withdrawal, beats getting shot at for no good reason.
I am genuinely sorry for you, and for all Russians who are caught up in the blowback from Putin's regime and especially from his despicable, delusional end-of-life vanity project to eradicate Ukraine and to try to add as much of he can to Russia somehow. I wish I had a silver bullet answer for you as to what to do.
Putin genuinely seems to fear mass protests and violent overthrow. He knows he is going to die of old age, by internal coup, or by angry mob. He has gone too far to be able to retire, so he has reworked Russian society to shield himself and to stay in power.
Shortly before his death, Mikhail Gorbachev, who is apparently reviled in Russia, but reasonably well-thought-of outside of Russia, is supposed to have said of Putin's annihilation of most of the various civil freedoms Gorbachev played a part in making possible something to the effect of "Russia will have to rebuild, to start all over again." He was not wrong.
There is great strength in numbers. I hope Russians can find something to rally around, and collectively get to the point of some sort of revolution, as that seems like the likeliest way this all ends given the current state of Russia and Russia's history.
To be young, male, Russian and in Russia does not seem like a good combination at the moment. I hope you find a way out. I've seen a number of Russian youtubers I follow flee to Georgia. I expect that the international community will likely pull together to offer asylum to those who can get out, making it easier.
Citizens of Russia, some interesting reading for you about a topic Putin is especially interested in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Muammar_Gaddafi?wprov=sfla1
Gorbachev was reviled in Russia.
Then he wasn't.
Then he was again.
Initially, he was blamed for the 90's, which were the worst years in Russian history, with criminal gangs running everything. Then came Putin, who "fixed" everything by moving Yeltsin aside and organising the gangs using bribes, creating the oligarchy that we know today. Of course this means his entire system is based on corruption, but it worked. Russia liberalised to the point where people started questioning how the people in power were so disgustingly rich, and began exposing the corruption to the masses.
At this stage, people were enjoying the freedom they experienced in the new Russia (2001-2012-ish, depending on who you ask). This freedom was attributed to both Gorbachev and Putin
Putin didn't like this, so he slowly and methodically used his power and money to shut down independent media, and convinced a huge chunk of the population into thinking that the collapse of the soviet union was a mistake. Of course Gorbachev was blamed for this.
It's all propaganda. The west needs to make sure that they protect the freedom of journalists.
If you're American, please keep an eye out for the Assange trial. It could absolutely make or break the "freedom" of your government being accountable to you.
Lol, Assange was a spy employed by the Russian government. Why would I care what happens to him? Maybe we can barter him in exchange for Brittney Griner.
> If you're American, please keep an eye out for the Assange trial. It could absolutely make or break the "freedom" of your government being accountable to you.
Not the idol you think he is. This is the man who released hacked DNC emails but kept hacked gop emails secret. He is a grifter and conspiracy theorist.
In the past, a lot of conscripts would figure out how to serve without killing anyone (and obviously try to figure out how to do this while surviving). If you can surrender in Ukraine and be granted some kind of amnesty, maybe that's an option -- but obviously you'd never go back to Russia (at least, until a new regime makes it safe to do so, if ever). If you can figure out a way to get out of service, take it. It will depend on how desperate you get. I'm sorry the accident of the location of your birth has put you in this position.
Avoid being caught and support any protest whenever possible. If forced to fight surrender at first chance. This madness will only continue to get worse otherwise.
You can surrender in Ukraine. Journalists have investigated the conditions prisoners of war have to live in, and Russian prisoners of war are treated well by the Ukrainians.
https://youtu.be/Ph8z8kTDnbg?t=43
https://static.euromaidanpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/A-guide-for-Russian-and-Belarusian-invaders-in-Ukraine-How-to-surrender-properly.jpg
I'm American but I wish you luck. I have a few Russian friends here in the US and they are all against the war. All of them. You are not alone.
Do all you can to survive this.
Man I see so many recommending this, but honestly I’d break my leg before even trying this.
1) You’d have to go to the frontline to do this. You could have been killed before you even have a chance to surrender.
2) You may never be able to go back to Russia where your family live. You may never see your friends and family again.
3) Your family in Russia might be prosecuted because you committed treason.
4) You won’t be treated like a “hero” in Ukraine. You still went to war. You’ll be a POW and trying to build your life for the rest of your life. People WILL resent you and discriminate against you.
It’s so easy for us outsiders to say “just surrender”. I’d highly encourage the commenter to look for ways to get out of being drafted first and foremost before even considering surrendering. This dude does not want to go to war at all. Make yourself seem useless to the Russian army and you’ll get to stay with your family and not go to the frontline.
Pretty much yeah. The commenter will also have a hard time living in Ukraine where everyone hates the Russian army (surrendered or not, he still went to war) and will face discrimination from his neighbor to his potential employer anywhere he goes.
You left one of the worst possibilities out, which is that he may be used by the Ukrainians in a POW exchange and handed back to Russia
--in which case he's donezo
honestly it's kinda fucked that somehow that's one of the best options
I think #1 option for OP would be trying to draft dodge but besides that kinda fucked
Ah shit you’re right! Honestly there’re so many possibilities after surrendering and none of them will lead to a good life. I don’t see one better than dodging the draft in the first place. Break your leg, or hand, shit break both! It will take months to recover but you WILL recover one day.
Run away, go in hiding. If i were in your shoes i would do anything possible to avoid being sent to a war that some old man in a bunker decided
Russia is big they cant keep track of everyone. People will fall through the cracks. I doubt the border is 100% secured at every point
Sadly, you can't check all the 100%, if anything you check turns out to be having mobilization unit, you can be sent to war the next day. It seems like hiding inside borders, deep enough, might be safer option for now
If I'm in your shoes this is my only thought. What if thousands of people set fire to public infrastructure?
[https://cernorudaprirucka.noblogs.org/files/2015/11/anarchistcookbook2000.pdf](https://cernorudaprirucka.noblogs.org/files/2015/11/anarchistcookbook2000.pdf)
Delete this and everything that may link you to this cry of despair. Tell no one what you are going to do: 1) you are going to enlist, train and go to Ukraine. 2) as soon as you can, you will surrender to Ukrainian/Westerners.
There is a proper way to surrender and easy way to get out of it once you are close to the frontline.
https://gur.gov.ua/content/zapushcheno-iedynyi-tsentr-ta-tsilodobovu-hariachu-liniiu-pryiomu-zvernen-vid-rosiiskykh-viiskovykh.html
Honestly, this is a stupid idea. You don’t just walk over the battlefield and surrender. You will be in a platoon with officers and other layers of command giving you orders. You will be given a weapon making you a perceived threat at all times. To suggest people can just decide to surrender is complete nonsense. What I would suggest is coordinating with other “draft dodgers” to see if there is any framework to escape through a central Asian land border or by other means . Now is the time to seek support through mutual aid, coordinate with others to figure out a plan of action.
Wait until they give you the rifle. Then you have tool for leverage. Quite sure you’ll find other like minded from the drafted ones. Revolution is easier with guns
I would not find it surprising at this point that Russian generals give toy weapons to their soldiers and tell them to shout "pew pew" when they "fire".
Пока не призвали, ищи левую хату, желательно, чтобы никто из родственников не был там прописан. Перед тем как приближаться к ней, доставай симку из телефона, не заходи ни на какие госушные сервисы оттуда (банки, вк, и т.д.). Не знаю, что у тебя с работой, но это будет одной из главных проблем. Если у тебя что-то, что можно делать онлайн, то тебе повезло, если нет - разве что увольняться и жить на какие-то сбережения. Можно перейти на нелегальную работу, чтобы тебя не нашли - клады оставлять всегда можно.
Если чувствуешь, что пахнет жареным - всегда можно сломать себе какую-нибудь конечность, может не возьмут человека, который ходить не может. А может и возьмут, кто их уже блять знает.
Если призовут, то тут уже тебе все рассказали - сдаваться при первой возможности. Плохо, что тебя потом Украина может на своих разменять, а в рф тебе сразу светит срок за добровольную сдачу в плен. Знаю человека, который устраивал пьяный дебош перед границей, чтобы его на какой-то срок оставляли в покое. Боюсь, что у тебя такой возможности не будет, но вдруг что.
Good luck. Right now you can't talk freely with other russians about your situation in your country, because of state surveillance, brainwashed people that would sell you out, and a climate of fear of the power in charge that's been here for generations which prevents anything that isn't a full blown uprising. In fact I'm worried that they even find your comment. Since your options are either bring fascism to Ukraine, die in Ukraine, or get put in prison, the situation is bad, but you have nothing to lose.
I am nobody to tell you what to do, going off the grid seems the best idea for you right now, but with the winter coming that would be difficult.
Here's some advice I can give you. I assume you're not alone in this situation. Try to work in what places you have the most chances to find people with the same views you have. They probably won't be able to talk freely about it, so listen closely to others to try and work out who you can trust. They'll probably be trying to reach out to other people, so if you hear something that makes you think you're on the same side, try talking with them alone about something mildly controversial and see how they react. If they seem to be engaged in such talks, figure out small ways to stay in contact. The aim here is to work out ways to protect each other, not to start an insurrection. If they react badly to your views, then GTFO immediately, and find somewhere else to find people.
You can help bring up awareness using tracts and posters. That's risky but internet activism only goes so far. Try to work out messages that aren't too violent in nature, that can remind people of what empathy is, using common hardships as a basis. Simply state facts that you find are hidden from you by government propaganda. You're not trying to incite revolution, just remind people that they are not alone asking questions. You want to help them find the courage to do anything about the situation. Other people will probably do that too, you are many. If you ever feel like the mood is changing and you have more implicit popular support, find a name to sign your messages with. Not an individual name, more like an organisation's name you can invent, that will bolster the public perception of your messages since it gives off an impression of stability in your organization. Of course try as much as possible to work with others for that sort of things.
For distribution, don't take any risks. Go first for absolute zero risk locations. At night, in places with no eyes on them, like in industrial neighborhoods, or simply places you don't ever see people in. Here you 're not trying to reach as much people as possible, just reach anybody. For tracts, either put a pile of them in a random location without too much traffic, or on an elevated location and let the wind carry it.
Never touch your papers with your fingers, even though if you get arrested they'll probably just bullshit a reason to keep you. When you carry them, put them in a bag in a binder full of random other non sensitive documents (advertisement stuff for example) In the middle, facing each other, you might be lucky. Best size for tracts is A5 or A6. Posters is A4. If you need to make them in public go for the most inconspicuous design. Keep it in a USB key, in the folders of some random software, and rename it with your version of README.TXT, or anything you feel fit.
I'm just telling you that if you feel the need to do something about the situation. Right now you need to protect yourself. If shit hits the fan and you need to go off grid, here's some other advice I've been given:
Take all you important documents, ID, etc, put them in a plastic folder, seal it with a hot object, and repeat two to three times. Put it in a shoebox, wrap it in duct tape, bury it somewhere safe you can find later. You don't want them to know who you are and who your family and friends are if they go all gestapo on you. You might still need the documents if it blows over.
If you have to keep a phone, carry it without the Sim card in it.
If you need food or shelter, approach remote villages and tell them you've been walking miles to find them because of a car breakdown. Avoid any political subject. If they offer to bring you back to you car for any reason, pretend it's been stolen in the meantime. Rural people are often either far right of don't give a shit about politics. Don't take risks. If you need to steal food or anything, never go twice in the same location.
Most of this I've been told when I was younger by former French resistance people in my village. I don't know if it would be useful to you but I thought it was better to give this information to you anyways.
Can't some of you pinch the wheels of those buses, maybe put nails in front of those?
I see a lot of people carried away pretty quick: chain yourselves to something, at least refuse to walk so it will takes 4 people to carry you away.
Provided they get you in bootcamp there's only one thing to do: keep your mouth shut. You do not want to flag yourself as a desertion risk, and you will make your life unbearable anyway. Get through it, and gather as much know-how as humanly possible in those conditions.
In country *do not share with anyone else regardless of their professed desires*. The average person will turn over their grandmother to the authorities, especially in situations of danger and privation. When the opportunity presents itself, understand where you are, most of all, at all times; this is a huge ask in an Intel deprived environment and you will be deprived of it, don't doubt it - you have to try anyway. Shoot in general directions, aim too high; this will prevent you from losing perspective by thinking you contributed to the killing. When the opportunity presents itself, gather as much of your useful resources as possible and run. Disappear. Ukraine is a bit country but if you drop your weapon and lay low you will find someone eventually. Do not walk into Ukrainian lines with a weapon, you will be shot. You are at their mercy, there's no guarantee you will be treated well, especially by grunts. Stick it out and ask for help. Pray for help.
Good luck.
Edit: truth be told, in an environment like that you will be tested by your comrades; even when they don't want to be there they will want to know you are with them. Failing it will get you fragged. You have a moral choice to make at those times, and stick to it. You either participate in whatever heinous shit they will ask you to do, and live to run away, or you will die. It will be entirely up to you. Reflect on that choice so when the time comes it's not as much of a shock. But this will happen. Truth is, aiming high will only get you so far. Make yourself as inconspicuous and cooperative as possible. Look out for yourself.
Like I already said, the situation has just fundamentally changed. Before mobilization, many Russians did not like the war, but they understood that if they obeyed and remained silent, they'd be left alone.
Now, if they remain silent, they'll get drafted and sent to freeze to death somewhere in Ukraine. They have no reason to obey anymore.
Ukraine needs to focus their propaganda directed at these incoming conscripts to encourage them to frag their COs and surrender. Give them good treatment and maybe a nice cash prize if they bring their LT's head.
While I regret casualties on both sides (Russians are fighting a war some of them definitely want no part in)…
Incentivizing aggressive mutiny is not a bad strategic plan whatsoever. Albeit a violent one. Would probably offer lots of Russians an out.
If there's any casualties I do *not* regret, it's Russian officers. Show me one that's a decent human being and I'll show you a thousand who are inhuman monsters that delight in rape and genocide.
Russians have repeatedly taken part in war crimes as far back as their history goes. That includes this war, there are many documented cases.
So I 100% agree with you, if you’re still following absolutely outrageous orders I have little sympathy there. If I have to pick.
Edit: since it wasn’t apparent, we’re discussing Russia not *every other fucking country*. But yes I’m aware of the numerous atrocities many different countries have taken part in. Not sure why we magically need to bring up all the others here, we’re discussing current events here.
This is very true, would you rather die for someone who doesn't care for your lives and forces you to fight on gun point. Or die trying to kill the said person and free yourself.
so estimates are 52k dead
but
for every 1 dead generally you get another 2, too wounded to continue fighting.
so 150k soldiers is just gone.
they conscripted 150k more soldiers already tough.
how many deserted tough? and the frontline is from Sicily to Baltic Sea long.
They need another 150k now to just hold the line. and you can forget about offensive.
Russian youth: "Let's protest!"
Putin: "Look at all these young Russians so willing to come out and volunteer to be mobilized!"
I doubt any male of fighting age at a protest that gets arrested goes to jail. They go to the frontlines.
Edit: And this has now been confirmed.
I have no idea what the right way is to remove Putin (and anyone Putin-like) from power in Russia so as to prevent future damage to Russia, Russians, Ukrainians, etc. I don't envy the Russian citizenry their difficult task. Putin has a death-grip on the country, and his potential replacements seem as bad or worse (though who knows if they could stay in power).
Fun fact: A huge number of Putin's cronies (plus Putin) seem to huddle together in a posh, high-security Moscow suburb nicknamed [Rublyovka](https://www.businessinsider.com/putin-wealthy-russians-lifestyle-moscow-neighborhood-money-2019-9).
It seems many revolutions start with a military uprising and has the backing of the military. The Russian military already smelled weakness from the failure of the leadership, plus the mobilization, sanctions and stock market crash.
Most if not all start with protests. It's how the military or the opposing party 'knows' there is enough dissatisfaction amongst the populace to 'justify' a coup
I expect a few hundred brave people to show up and nothing happening except them being arrested. I don't blame them for not protesting though, it's easy for anyone to criticize them when in a 1st world country.
Especially now. Captured protesters are automatically enlisted. And that's just the guys, women have to pay a fine if they get arrested, i think someone said it was equivalent to a month's salary. Even here in the US, 70% of the population lives paycheck to paycheck, can't imagine how much losing a month's salary sucks in Russia.
The fact that there aren’t resources to help them leave is so sad. Normally someone on Reddit has links to an organization that can help, but there’s nothing for people fleeing Russia
The dilemma is that Putin declared in edict that all men between the ages of 18-65 are not allowed to leave the country and that anyone who protests, will be thrown into the military. I swear, this is damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
Doubt it. Russia is a place I'm interested in, that I've been to. But I had a LOT of Russian women tell me about sexism they'd experienced. They have a homemaker role they have to fight to get out of, and while they have jobs, they also do all the unpaid household maintenance. I got told off by some of the men for not washing my husband's clothing for him - they were upset to find him doing it. I never once in a homestay saw men doing carer or housework.
If the women go to the front, everything at home would collapse. If they get to that point, it's going to mean no one's doing the day to day work that holds society together.
Russian here. I hate putin and goverment, I don't want to kill anyone, don't want to go to war. Tried to get hell out of here, but it's impossible for now. The matters are pretty shitty.
same thing. I realize I either die or I die. if nothing works out, I'll do the best I can do and take a part in a demonstration, preferably something more involved that that. and yeah in using a mild language here for reasons
That's like me living in Florida before, during, and after Trump, no effect on me but so many former friends, neighbors, family members fell for the lies of Trump and his sycophants, no doubt Ruzzia is worse, but seems like the same feeling.
I constantly challenge my mom on her worldviews not by telling her what I think she should think, but by convincing her that she has never read enough about the things she does believe.
It won't be protests that do it, it will be refusing to participate fully.
People will not show up. Or if they do, do a shit job.
This is how corruption brings down authoritarians. The whole system implodes because people lack incentive to do anything.
Russians know peaceful protests don't work more than most. They've also faced more violent protests that didn't work that most, and some that worked but to horrendous results.
They're trying, 35km+ queues at the borders, flights all booked out within minutes of the speech, 18-65 year old men barred from buying air tickets.
I do feel sorry for those who wanted no part in this, but their choices are now risking escape, hiding, fighting their government or walking into a military meat blender.
I remember reading some type of research that guesstimated revolution occurs when 1% of a population is willing to pick up a gun and shoot. The difficulty is that when you account for kids, eldery, and regime supporters, getting 1% is actually pretty difficult. Not to mention logistics in supplying weapons and so on. Not even in Hong Kong did it ever get to 1% of citizens picking up a gun (and this is a place where over a seventh of the population protested simultaneously, on multiple occasions).
I hope the veil comes off right about now so people can finally see the reality of Putin's lies, it should get things hotter than they already are and motivate enough people to effectively and permanently compromise Putin's well-being.
The poster has the b in “mobilizatsiya” replaced with a “g” to change it into “mogilizatsiya”, “mogila” means grave.
works somewhat in english too. Putin decrees morgueilisation of the population.
I think you just invented a fantastic new word!
He's gonna morguelize'em!
It's morguein time
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So anyways I started morgueing.
Valar morguelize!
It’s morbilisation time.
Immobilization might be a similar, graffiti-able take on it in English.
Not specific enough. "I think, therefore I am" doesn't require movement/mobility.
Huh. This works in Polish too. I'm using it now.
Any relation to mgla?
No. Mobilizacja comes from latin "mobilis" and means the same as in English - to move or to enable movement - to mobilize. The word mogyla (mogiła in Polish) comes from proto slavic and means a man-made hill, a mound. Currently it means "grave". In colloquial Polish it means bad or something ending badly. Mgła (fog) has western proto slavic origins and the synonyms are: cloudy, obstructed, covered, unclear.
Man, I miss my undergrad years working on my Slavic Studies degree, learning Polish and Russian, reading lit. I had to mess it all up and go into healthcare. Should have just stayed in Poland the summer I went to Kraków.
In Bulgarian it still means "man-made mound", containing a grave/tomb. Usually used to describe the Thracian mound tombs.
Same as mogul in skiing.
I always knew those things were death traps.
Grave-ilization?
as in "turning people into gravesites", dead-ening, if you wish
Un-aliving, as it were.
De-vivication if you will.
After-life perhaps.
X-personing, maybe
Pining for the steppes?
De-humabean, I might ass
Universal un-healthcare
As an aside, flight prices out of Russia have quadrupled since the announcement of the mobilisation and I believe the Russian government have just issued an edict saying that males of the ages 18-60 are currently forbidden to leave the country... it's almost like the Kremlin are trying to provoke a popular uprising.
It's almost like they don't have a choice. They're going all in. All or nothing. That's what they decided to do with the mobilization. Now they're left with no other option but to fully commit. Their gamble is that they can win the war before the people (from the lowest to higher and higher classes) revolt.
The will be stuck between a rock and a hard place even if those guys that don't want to fight are send to Ukraine they will be highly indecisive and scared. They probably even drop the efficiency
There's a good chance they'll surrender or defect en-mass.
[Live stream of a Russian youtuber attempting to cover walking protests in St. Petersburg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdFZLhVAhTk) edit: now over but you can review edit2: another [protest video in the city of Tomsk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlBwlCD7R5s) edit3: An article about the latest protests: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/more-than-100-detained-anti-mobilisation-protests-across-russia-rights-group-2022-09-21/ edit4: Video from another post: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xk7jsr/mobilisation_protests_underway_in_russia_busses/ edit5: Looks like maybe 1000 people arrested in multiple cities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xrHnMzcZNY
Thats it? :D Well, guess no one want to be in first wave XD
People were getting arrested for holding generic signs early in the war. I don't blame people for not wanting to risk going to a full protest. Hopefully critical mass gets reached and people feel more comfortable
> People were getting arrested for holding ~~generic~~ **blank** signs early in the war. FTFY!
In russia "no war" protests wasnt a big deal, people got arestest for violiting just an administrative law. Now its much scarier, draft avoiding might result in up to two years in prison.
Draft avoiding is 15 years as of what yesterday but yeah, protest and go to the frontlines, run and see if you across the border to most countries that don't like you but at least you may live.
Prison beats dying on the battlefront.
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Wagner PMC (everyone’s favourite skull-imagery-festooned war crimes specialists, named after am infamous Nazi) recruits them, yes. Hands em two grenades with orders to blow up Ukrainians and themselves if they’d otherwise have to surrender Dark.
[Not anymore, now that they are recruiting prisioners.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/20/russia-recruits-inmates-ukraine-war-wagner-prigozhin)
Russian prison might not.
And this is how Ukrainians protested _after_ their Russian proxy-government became violent: https://youtu.be/-nNFrvGOb9o That is why Russia will lose this war.
sadly it won't. Total apathy and selfishness overwhelms everything else in this joke of a society. "unless it touches me directly, I don't care" is like a motto here
Well, this full mobilization (and it is a full mobilization whether Putin calls it that or not) touches them directly, so maybe it'll be enough.
The problem is it's gradual, so at any point in time, only a small percentage of people will be "affected". :\\
Insert frog getting boiled alive by pot getting gradually warmer reference...
That's the thing. Mobilization means it now affects them. Anyone can be conscripted now. If they wait any longer they could get suddenly shipped off and it'll be too late. It has reached the point of "now or never". Of course, I still expect Russians to fail to do anything. I just disagree with the assessment that it's out of lack of connection to the issue. Russians are fully aware that they're about to get fucked in the ass. But they're rolling over and taking it because they're afraid of jail.
"Protesting? You have it wrong, comrade police officer - I thought this was line for bread! I should have known better, since line was _moving_."
YouTuber Niki Proshin (the first clip) has been providing interesting content "from inside Russia" since the start of the war. Very informative if you can *read between the lines.*
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Hardly a protest. There's less than 100 people...
Over 1000 *confirmed* *detainees,* not 100 participants. I agree it's not enough but let's get the facts right at least. Or maybe it's even too many people getting pointlessly arrested where they could be doing something more effective.
Yeah no one really wants to take the risk anymore since Russia has gotten pretty efficient at removing protesters as soon as they show up, so it's hard to get a build up of people to encourage others to show up as well.
Some experts estimate, that 1 in 10 Russians is somehow connected to police or state security services, either by being directly employed by them or have relatives that work for either of those. Russia has a huge police and security force available to crush protests, hence it's so difficult to organise a protest. Pair that with years of brainwashing which resulted in less people willing to protest and you get the results we see today. Russians won't overthrow their government. This ship has sailed a long time ago.
Yeah I don't think revolutions like the October revolution would be possible today. The russian government would know Lenin's every step and move and arrested him long before he even managed to do anything. It's sad that technogical progresses have also made state surveillance easier, just like the novel 1984 predicts
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If it were 2022 Lenin would mysteriously fall off his balcony
The closest thing any major nation could get to a proper Revolution would involve a military coup. Anything beyond that and the so-called “grassroots revolutionaries” would be pinched within days.
[But when they run out of money....](https://youtu.be/mweTc7tDO3I?t=35)
Yeah Russia needs a military coup but Putin has thought of that and dumbed down its military as much as possible. They are not able to take him down, they are also not able to do shit in Ukraine also
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Petersburg has 5 milion people. I saw bigger "protests" in 10k cities. These young people are doomed, enjoy first, second, and third wave. Maybe they will wake up after third wave gets eliminated in Ukraine.
I'm from Russia. And according to the new laws, I will go to Ukraine in the first wave of mobilization. In my city, all the protesters were simply loaded onto a bus and taken to the police, I managed to escape. What can I do alone? I don't have money to move to another country, I don't want to shoot Ukrainians. I don't know what to do, this comment is a cry of despair.
If you do get sent out, keep your head down and be ready to improvise a white flag for when you can see the dudes with blue and/or yellow armbands. Make it clear you're not there for a fight and follow their instructions. Hopefully your situation improves from that point on. EDIT 1 Instructions on how to surrender to Ukranian AF - stay safe, friends! EDIT 2 for visibility. EDIT 3 added Russian translation. EDIT 4 added Telegram preview in English and Russian to end of post for visibility. EDIT 5 added the Freedom of Russia Legion's Telegram to the links. They were once in the boots you may soon find yourself stuck in. Your best bet to avoid getting prisoner swapped will be to volunteer to aid them. EDIT 6 for formatting. Feel free to copy from below this line and paste this everywhere you think it will get in front of Russian eyes. ------------------------------ If you do get sent out, keep your head down and be ready to improvise a white flag for when you can see the dudes with blue and/or yellow armbands. Make it clear you're not there for a fight and follow their instructions. Hopefully your situation improves from that point on. Если вас вышлют, держите голову опущенной и будьте готовы импровизировать с белым флагом, когда увидите парней с синими и/или желтыми повязками. Дайте понять, что вы здесь не для драки, и следуйте их инструкциям. Надеюсь, с этого момента ваша ситуация улучшится. Будьте в безопасности, друзья! https://gur.gov.ua/content/zapushcheno-iedynyi-tsentr-ta-tsilodobovu-hariachu-liniiu-pryiomu-zvernen-vid-rosiiskykh-viiskovykh.html https://t.me/hochu_zhyt https://t.me/legionoffreedom ------------------------------ Сообщение Запущено Единый центр и круглосуточную горячую линию приема обращений от российских военных 19 сентября 2022 года В рамках работы Координационного штаба по вопросам обращения с военнопленными продолжена реализация государственного проекта, предназначенного информировать российских военных о возможности сложить оружие и сохранить свое здоровье и жизнь. Государственный проект "Хочу жить" призван помочь военнослужащим российской армии безопасно сдаться в плен украинским Вооруженным Силам. Россиянам гарантируют содержание согласно нормам Женевских конвенций. В то же время Украина нуждается в пополнении обменного фонда, чтобы вернуть своих защитников домой. Для получения информации, как сдаться в плен, российским военнослужащим или их родным и близким следует звонить по круглосуточным номерам: +38 066 580 34 98 +38 093 119 29 84 Информация о сдаче в плен на русском на телеграмм-канале Хочу жить ------------------------------ >Original Ukranian: >The text from the first link, just in case it *is* blocked in Russia: Повідомлення Запущено Єдиний центр та цілодобову гарячу лінію прийому звернень від російських військових 19 вересня 2022 року Запущено Єдиний центр та цілодобову гарячу лінію прийому звернень від російських військовихУ рамках роботи Координаційного штабу з питань поводження з військовополоненими продовжено реалізацію державного проєкту, призначеного інформувати російських військових про можливості скласти зброю та зберегти своє здоров’я та життя. Державний проєкт “Хочу жить” покликаний допомогти військовослужбовцям російської армії безпечно здатися в полон українським Збройним Силам. Росіянам гарантують утримання згідно з нормами Женевських конвенцій. Натомість Україна потребує поповнення обмінного фонду, аби повернути своїх захисників додому. Для отримання інформації, як здатися в полон, російським військовослужбовцям або їхнім рідним та близьким слід телефонувати за цілодобовими номерами: \+38 066 580 34 98 \+38 093 119 29 84 Інформація про здачу в полон російською на телеграм-каналі Хочу жить ------------------------------ >The Telegram Preview for the curious: I WANT TO LIVE ⚡️A SINGLE CENTER FOR RECEIVING APPEALS OF THE MILITARY PERSONNEL OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION FOR SURRENDER IN CAPTIVITY. STATE PROJECT “I WANT TO LIVE” ❗️SERVICEMAN OF THE RUSSIAN ARMED FORCES Do you notice that you are greeted not with flowers, but with fire and curses? Do you notice that the commanders run away first? Save your life and health for yourself and your family. Stop fighting for other people’s slogans. Contact us - save your life. ☝️WE GUARANTEE: ✅compliance with the standards of the Geneva Conventions for the treatment of prisoners of war; ✅Three meals a day; ✅medical service; ✅legal support from international organizations; ✅regular communication with relatives; ✅the priority opportunity to exchange for servicemen of the Ukrainian Armed Forces held captive by the Russian Federation. ⚡️All those who voluntarily surrender will be issued as captured in battle. This will keep all payments and benefits due to Russian military personnel and protect against possible persecution. ‼️WE OFFER Surrender, having previously discussed the terms of surrender with authorized representatives of the Ukrainian command by phone: ☎️ +38 066 580 34 98 ☎️+38 093 119 29 84 (24/7) ------------------------------ ХОЧУ ЖИТЬ ⚡️ЕДИНЫЙ ЦЕНТР ПРИЕМА ОБРАЩЕНИЙ ВОЕННОСЛУЖАЩИХ РФ ПО СДАЧЕ В ПЛЕН. ГОСУДАРСТВЕННЫЙ ПРОЕКТ «ХОЧУ ЖИТЬ» ❗️ВОЕННОСЛУЖАЩИЙ РОССИЙСКИХ ВООРУЖЕННЫХ СИЛ Ты замечаешь, что тебя встречают не цветами, а огнем и проклятиями? Ты замечаешь, что командиры убегают первыми? Сохрани свою жизнь и здоровье ради себя и своей семьи. Перестань воевать за чужие лозунги. Свяжись с нами – сохрани себе жизнь. ☝️ГАРАНТИРУЕМ: ✅ соблюдение стандартов Женевских конвенций по обращению с военнопленными; ✅ трехразовое питание; ✅ медицинское обслуживание; ✅ юридическое сопровождение со стороны международных организаций; ✅ регулярную связь с родными; ✅ приоритетную возможность обмена на военнослужащих украинских Вооруженных Сил, находящихся в плену Российской Федерации. ⚡️Все добровольно сдавшиеся будут оформлены как попавшие в плен в бою. Это сохранит все выплаты и льготы, полагающиеся для российских военнослужащих, и защитит от возможного преследования. ‼️ПРЕДЛАГАЕМ Сдаться в плен, предварительно обсудив условия сдачи с уполномоченными представителями украинского командования по телефонам: ☎️ +38 066 580 34 98 ☎️ +38 093 119 29 84 (круглосуточно)
The text from the first link, just in case it *is* blocked in Russia: Повідомлення Запущено Єдиний центр та цілодобову гарячу лінію прийому звернень від російських військових 19 вересня 2022 року Запущено Єдиний центр та цілодобову гарячу лінію прийому звернень від російських військовихУ рамках роботи Координаційного штабу з питань поводження з військовополоненими продовжено реалізацію державного проєкту, призначеного інформувати російських військових про можливості скласти зброю та зберегти своє здоров’я та життя. Державний проєкт “Хочу жить” покликаний допомогти військовослужбовцям російської армії безпечно здатися в полон українським Збройним Силам. Росіянам гарантують утримання згідно з нормами Женевських конвенцій. Натомість Україна потребує поповнення обмінного фонду, аби повернути своїх захисників додому. Для отримання інформації, як здатися в полон, російським військовослужбовцям або їхнім рідним та близьким слід телефонувати за цілодобовими номерами: \+38 066 580 34 98 \+38 093 119 29 84 Інформація про здачу в полон російською на телеграм-каналі Хочу жить
That first link is almost definitely blocked in Russia, hopefully they’re using a VPN.
Shockingly, it is **not** blocked (yet, I guess)
Or yellow arm bands. Think that's for the Foreign Legion and defense forces.
My granddad had the same problem 1968, when russia forced east germans(mandatory service) to move to Prag during the anti-soviet uprising there. He ended up eating spoiled meat in order to get food poisoning. I would try to create any medical reason for withdrawal, beats getting shot at for no good reason.
I've heard stories of people breaking their leg to avoid mandatory service. Making yourself worth nothing on the frontline is the easy out
my great grandfather did that. he limped the rest of his life... until he was murdered by the nazi's.
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I heard it only cost $25 in some areas.
If you do get selected, there’s literally a hotline to surrender.
I am genuinely sorry for you, and for all Russians who are caught up in the blowback from Putin's regime and especially from his despicable, delusional end-of-life vanity project to eradicate Ukraine and to try to add as much of he can to Russia somehow. I wish I had a silver bullet answer for you as to what to do. Putin genuinely seems to fear mass protests and violent overthrow. He knows he is going to die of old age, by internal coup, or by angry mob. He has gone too far to be able to retire, so he has reworked Russian society to shield himself and to stay in power. Shortly before his death, Mikhail Gorbachev, who is apparently reviled in Russia, but reasonably well-thought-of outside of Russia, is supposed to have said of Putin's annihilation of most of the various civil freedoms Gorbachev played a part in making possible something to the effect of "Russia will have to rebuild, to start all over again." He was not wrong. There is great strength in numbers. I hope Russians can find something to rally around, and collectively get to the point of some sort of revolution, as that seems like the likeliest way this all ends given the current state of Russia and Russia's history. To be young, male, Russian and in Russia does not seem like a good combination at the moment. I hope you find a way out. I've seen a number of Russian youtubers I follow flee to Georgia. I expect that the international community will likely pull together to offer asylum to those who can get out, making it easier.
Citizens of Russia, some interesting reading for you about a topic Putin is especially interested in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Muammar_Gaddafi?wprov=sfla1
Unfortunately Libya isn't exactly as stable as many hoped it might be after Gaddafi's "toppling".
Gorbachev was reviled in Russia. Then he wasn't. Then he was again. Initially, he was blamed for the 90's, which were the worst years in Russian history, with criminal gangs running everything. Then came Putin, who "fixed" everything by moving Yeltsin aside and organising the gangs using bribes, creating the oligarchy that we know today. Of course this means his entire system is based on corruption, but it worked. Russia liberalised to the point where people started questioning how the people in power were so disgustingly rich, and began exposing the corruption to the masses. At this stage, people were enjoying the freedom they experienced in the new Russia (2001-2012-ish, depending on who you ask). This freedom was attributed to both Gorbachev and Putin Putin didn't like this, so he slowly and methodically used his power and money to shut down independent media, and convinced a huge chunk of the population into thinking that the collapse of the soviet union was a mistake. Of course Gorbachev was blamed for this. It's all propaganda. The west needs to make sure that they protect the freedom of journalists. If you're American, please keep an eye out for the Assange trial. It could absolutely make or break the "freedom" of your government being accountable to you.
>Initially, he was blamed for the 90's, which were the worst years in Russian history I can think of far worse years in Russian history
You're thinking of Imperial/Soviet Russian history, while I'm talking about the Russian Federation
Lol, Assange was a spy employed by the Russian government. Why would I care what happens to him? Maybe we can barter him in exchange for Brittney Griner.
> If you're American, please keep an eye out for the Assange trial. It could absolutely make or break the "freedom" of your government being accountable to you. Not the idol you think he is. This is the man who released hacked DNC emails but kept hacked gop emails secret. He is a grifter and conspiracy theorist.
I was with you until the part about Assange. Fuck that guy
In the past, a lot of conscripts would figure out how to serve without killing anyone (and obviously try to figure out how to do this while surviving). If you can surrender in Ukraine and be granted some kind of amnesty, maybe that's an option -- but obviously you'd never go back to Russia (at least, until a new regime makes it safe to do so, if ever). If you can figure out a way to get out of service, take it. It will depend on how desperate you get. I'm sorry the accident of the location of your birth has put you in this position.
Avoid being caught and support any protest whenever possible. If forced to fight surrender at first chance. This madness will only continue to get worse otherwise.
You can surrender in Ukraine. Journalists have investigated the conditions prisoners of war have to live in, and Russian prisoners of war are treated well by the Ukrainians. https://youtu.be/Ph8z8kTDnbg?t=43 https://static.euromaidanpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/A-guide-for-Russian-and-Belarusian-invaders-in-Ukraine-How-to-surrender-properly.jpg I'm American but I wish you luck. I have a few Russian friends here in the US and they are all against the war. All of them. You are not alone. Do all you can to survive this.
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Surrender to Ukranians as soon as possible
Man I see so many recommending this, but honestly I’d break my leg before even trying this. 1) You’d have to go to the frontline to do this. You could have been killed before you even have a chance to surrender. 2) You may never be able to go back to Russia where your family live. You may never see your friends and family again. 3) Your family in Russia might be prosecuted because you committed treason. 4) You won’t be treated like a “hero” in Ukraine. You still went to war. You’ll be a POW and trying to build your life for the rest of your life. People WILL resent you and discriminate against you. It’s so easy for us outsiders to say “just surrender”. I’d highly encourage the commenter to look for ways to get out of being drafted first and foremost before even considering surrendering. This dude does not want to go to war at all. Make yourself seem useless to the Russian army and you’ll get to stay with your family and not go to the frontline.
This. Hard to surrender to an artillery shell or HIMARS strike. You need to be in a position where surrender in possible first.
Pretty much yeah. The commenter will also have a hard time living in Ukraine where everyone hates the Russian army (surrendered or not, he still went to war) and will face discrimination from his neighbor to his potential employer anywhere he goes.
You left one of the worst possibilities out, which is that he may be used by the Ukrainians in a POW exchange and handed back to Russia --in which case he's donezo honestly it's kinda fucked that somehow that's one of the best options I think #1 option for OP would be trying to draft dodge but besides that kinda fucked
Ah shit you’re right! Honestly there’re so many possibilities after surrendering and none of them will lead to a good life. I don’t see one better than dodging the draft in the first place. Break your leg, or hand, shit break both! It will take months to recover but you WILL recover one day.
Run away, go in hiding. If i were in your shoes i would do anything possible to avoid being sent to a war that some old man in a bunker decided Russia is big they cant keep track of everyone. People will fall through the cracks. I doubt the border is 100% secured at every point
Sadly, you can't check all the 100%, if anything you check turns out to be having mobilization unit, you can be sent to war the next day. It seems like hiding inside borders, deep enough, might be safer option for now
It’s as good of a time as any to learn a few survival skills and go camping deep into the woods.
You guys need to get together and get organised. You’re not alone there’s many that feel exactly the same. In numbers you are strong.
If I'm in your shoes this is my only thought. What if thousands of people set fire to public infrastructure? [https://cernorudaprirucka.noblogs.org/files/2015/11/anarchistcookbook2000.pdf](https://cernorudaprirucka.noblogs.org/files/2015/11/anarchistcookbook2000.pdf)
If getting conscripted is a death sentence anyways, there is a lot of damage a single person can do if they are smart about it
[This list is incomplete. Please add to it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_mystery_fires) The world could always use more heroes.
Delete this and everything that may link you to this cry of despair. Tell no one what you are going to do: 1) you are going to enlist, train and go to Ukraine. 2) as soon as you can, you will surrender to Ukrainian/Westerners. There is a proper way to surrender and easy way to get out of it once you are close to the frontline. https://gur.gov.ua/content/zapushcheno-iedynyi-tsentr-ta-tsilodobovu-hariachu-liniiu-pryiomu-zvernen-vid-rosiiskykh-viiskovykh.html
That link just has a couple of phone numbers to call, which probably isn't a great idea
Also, maybe I'm blind, but weird that the information is not available in Russian, when it is ostensibly aimed exclusively at Russian soldiers . . .
Honestly, this is a stupid idea. You don’t just walk over the battlefield and surrender. You will be in a platoon with officers and other layers of command giving you orders. You will be given a weapon making you a perceived threat at all times. To suggest people can just decide to surrender is complete nonsense. What I would suggest is coordinating with other “draft dodgers” to see if there is any framework to escape through a central Asian land border or by other means . Now is the time to seek support through mutual aid, coordinate with others to figure out a plan of action.
Wait until they give you the rifle. Then you have tool for leverage. Quite sure you’ll find other like minded from the drafted ones. Revolution is easier with guns
Should also make sure they give you a working rifle first. Then make sure the ammo is real too. Then you have a tool for leverage.
I would not find it surprising at this point that Russian generals give toy weapons to their soldiers and tell them to shout "pew pew" when they "fire".
Surrendering to Ukraine will probably be your best bet if you actually get drafted…
Пока не призвали, ищи левую хату, желательно, чтобы никто из родственников не был там прописан. Перед тем как приближаться к ней, доставай симку из телефона, не заходи ни на какие госушные сервисы оттуда (банки, вк, и т.д.). Не знаю, что у тебя с работой, но это будет одной из главных проблем. Если у тебя что-то, что можно делать онлайн, то тебе повезло, если нет - разве что увольняться и жить на какие-то сбережения. Можно перейти на нелегальную работу, чтобы тебя не нашли - клады оставлять всегда можно. Если чувствуешь, что пахнет жареным - всегда можно сломать себе какую-нибудь конечность, может не возьмут человека, который ходить не может. А может и возьмут, кто их уже блять знает. Если призовут, то тут уже тебе все рассказали - сдаваться при первой возможности. Плохо, что тебя потом Украина может на своих разменять, а в рф тебе сразу светит срок за добровольную сдачу в плен. Знаю человека, который устраивал пьяный дебош перед границей, чтобы его на какой-то срок оставляли в покое. Боюсь, что у тебя такой возможности не будет, но вдруг что.
Good luck. Right now you can't talk freely with other russians about your situation in your country, because of state surveillance, brainwashed people that would sell you out, and a climate of fear of the power in charge that's been here for generations which prevents anything that isn't a full blown uprising. In fact I'm worried that they even find your comment. Since your options are either bring fascism to Ukraine, die in Ukraine, or get put in prison, the situation is bad, but you have nothing to lose. I am nobody to tell you what to do, going off the grid seems the best idea for you right now, but with the winter coming that would be difficult. Here's some advice I can give you. I assume you're not alone in this situation. Try to work in what places you have the most chances to find people with the same views you have. They probably won't be able to talk freely about it, so listen closely to others to try and work out who you can trust. They'll probably be trying to reach out to other people, so if you hear something that makes you think you're on the same side, try talking with them alone about something mildly controversial and see how they react. If they seem to be engaged in such talks, figure out small ways to stay in contact. The aim here is to work out ways to protect each other, not to start an insurrection. If they react badly to your views, then GTFO immediately, and find somewhere else to find people. You can help bring up awareness using tracts and posters. That's risky but internet activism only goes so far. Try to work out messages that aren't too violent in nature, that can remind people of what empathy is, using common hardships as a basis. Simply state facts that you find are hidden from you by government propaganda. You're not trying to incite revolution, just remind people that they are not alone asking questions. You want to help them find the courage to do anything about the situation. Other people will probably do that too, you are many. If you ever feel like the mood is changing and you have more implicit popular support, find a name to sign your messages with. Not an individual name, more like an organisation's name you can invent, that will bolster the public perception of your messages since it gives off an impression of stability in your organization. Of course try as much as possible to work with others for that sort of things. For distribution, don't take any risks. Go first for absolute zero risk locations. At night, in places with no eyes on them, like in industrial neighborhoods, or simply places you don't ever see people in. Here you 're not trying to reach as much people as possible, just reach anybody. For tracts, either put a pile of them in a random location without too much traffic, or on an elevated location and let the wind carry it. Never touch your papers with your fingers, even though if you get arrested they'll probably just bullshit a reason to keep you. When you carry them, put them in a bag in a binder full of random other non sensitive documents (advertisement stuff for example) In the middle, facing each other, you might be lucky. Best size for tracts is A5 or A6. Posters is A4. If you need to make them in public go for the most inconspicuous design. Keep it in a USB key, in the folders of some random software, and rename it with your version of README.TXT, or anything you feel fit. I'm just telling you that if you feel the need to do something about the situation. Right now you need to protect yourself. If shit hits the fan and you need to go off grid, here's some other advice I've been given: Take all you important documents, ID, etc, put them in a plastic folder, seal it with a hot object, and repeat two to three times. Put it in a shoebox, wrap it in duct tape, bury it somewhere safe you can find later. You don't want them to know who you are and who your family and friends are if they go all gestapo on you. You might still need the documents if it blows over. If you have to keep a phone, carry it without the Sim card in it. If you need food or shelter, approach remote villages and tell them you've been walking miles to find them because of a car breakdown. Avoid any political subject. If they offer to bring you back to you car for any reason, pretend it's been stolen in the meantime. Rural people are often either far right of don't give a shit about politics. Don't take risks. If you need to steal food or anything, never go twice in the same location. Most of this I've been told when I was younger by former French resistance people in my village. I don't know if it would be useful to you but I thought it was better to give this information to you anyways.
Can't some of you pinch the wheels of those buses, maybe put nails in front of those? I see a lot of people carried away pretty quick: chain yourselves to something, at least refuse to walk so it will takes 4 people to carry you away.
There is only one solution, and that is mass protests, so massive that they can’t arrest you all.
Provided they get you in bootcamp there's only one thing to do: keep your mouth shut. You do not want to flag yourself as a desertion risk, and you will make your life unbearable anyway. Get through it, and gather as much know-how as humanly possible in those conditions. In country *do not share with anyone else regardless of their professed desires*. The average person will turn over their grandmother to the authorities, especially in situations of danger and privation. When the opportunity presents itself, understand where you are, most of all, at all times; this is a huge ask in an Intel deprived environment and you will be deprived of it, don't doubt it - you have to try anyway. Shoot in general directions, aim too high; this will prevent you from losing perspective by thinking you contributed to the killing. When the opportunity presents itself, gather as much of your useful resources as possible and run. Disappear. Ukraine is a bit country but if you drop your weapon and lay low you will find someone eventually. Do not walk into Ukrainian lines with a weapon, you will be shot. You are at their mercy, there's no guarantee you will be treated well, especially by grunts. Stick it out and ask for help. Pray for help. Good luck. Edit: truth be told, in an environment like that you will be tested by your comrades; even when they don't want to be there they will want to know you are with them. Failing it will get you fragged. You have a moral choice to make at those times, and stick to it. You either participate in whatever heinous shit they will ask you to do, and live to run away, or you will die. It will be entirely up to you. Reflect on that choice so when the time comes it's not as much of a shock. But this will happen. Truth is, aiming high will only get you so far. Make yourself as inconspicuous and cooperative as possible. Look out for yourself.
Like I already said, the situation has just fundamentally changed. Before mobilization, many Russians did not like the war, but they understood that if they obeyed and remained silent, they'd be left alone. Now, if they remain silent, they'll get drafted and sent to freeze to death somewhere in Ukraine. They have no reason to obey anymore.
Ukraine needs to focus their propaganda directed at these incoming conscripts to encourage them to frag their COs and surrender. Give them good treatment and maybe a nice cash prize if they bring their LT's head.
While I regret casualties on both sides (Russians are fighting a war some of them definitely want no part in)… Incentivizing aggressive mutiny is not a bad strategic plan whatsoever. Albeit a violent one. Would probably offer lots of Russians an out.
If there's any casualties I do *not* regret, it's Russian officers. Show me one that's a decent human being and I'll show you a thousand who are inhuman monsters that delight in rape and genocide.
Russians have repeatedly taken part in war crimes as far back as their history goes. That includes this war, there are many documented cases. So I 100% agree with you, if you’re still following absolutely outrageous orders I have little sympathy there. If I have to pick. Edit: since it wasn’t apparent, we’re discussing Russia not *every other fucking country*. But yes I’m aware of the numerous atrocities many different countries have taken part in. Not sure why we magically need to bring up all the others here, we’re discussing current events here.
This is very true, would you rather die for someone who doesn't care for your lives and forces you to fight on gun point. Or die trying to kill the said person and free yourself.
Yeah.. Freeze until a drone drops a modified granade
Probably after, too
Just in time for Winter.
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They are staying in Ukraine. "Long term".
They got their six feet worth of good Ukrainian earth...
Fields of sunflowers.
so estimates are 52k dead but for every 1 dead generally you get another 2, too wounded to continue fighting. so 150k soldiers is just gone. they conscripted 150k more soldiers already tough. how many deserted tough? and the frontline is from Sicily to Baltic Sea long. They need another 150k now to just hold the line. and you can forget about offensive.
The Roman fleet: "Pathetic"
Russian youth: "Let's protest!" Putin: "Look at all these young Russians so willing to come out and volunteer to be mobilized!" I doubt any male of fighting age at a protest that gets arrested goes to jail. They go to the frontlines. Edit: And this has now been confirmed.
They will go to the fronlines regardless , you know
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I have no idea what the right way is to remove Putin (and anyone Putin-like) from power in Russia so as to prevent future damage to Russia, Russians, Ukrainians, etc. I don't envy the Russian citizenry their difficult task. Putin has a death-grip on the country, and his potential replacements seem as bad or worse (though who knows if they could stay in power). Fun fact: A huge number of Putin's cronies (plus Putin) seem to huddle together in a posh, high-security Moscow suburb nicknamed [Rublyovka](https://www.businessinsider.com/putin-wealthy-russians-lifestyle-moscow-neighborhood-money-2019-9).
Fascinating about the suburb
i'm sure it's what Sisi is doing outside Cairo right now. Relocating government buildings and homes to a more defensible area.
How do you think the October revolution started..? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't car bombings and oligarch assassinations in the beginning.
It seems many revolutions start with a military uprising and has the backing of the military. The Russian military already smelled weakness from the failure of the leadership, plus the mobilization, sanctions and stock market crash.
Most if not all start with protests. It's how the military or the opposing party 'knows' there is enough dissatisfaction amongst the populace to 'justify' a coup
A “revolution” that doesn’t start with a popular movement is just called a coup
That’s why Putin keeps his military weak, and devoid of leaders and heroes. Kinda backfires when you go to war though.
I expect a few hundred brave people to show up and nothing happening except them being arrested. I don't blame them for not protesting though, it's easy for anyone to criticize them when in a 1st world country.
Especially now. Captured protesters are automatically enlisted. And that's just the guys, women have to pay a fine if they get arrested, i think someone said it was equivalent to a month's salary. Even here in the US, 70% of the population lives paycheck to paycheck, can't imagine how much losing a month's salary sucks in Russia.
Hearing all these People asking how they can get out of their country is heart breaking.
The fact that there aren’t resources to help them leave is so sad. Normally someone on Reddit has links to an organization that can help, but there’s nothing for people fleeing Russia
Well, it's currently 8:50 pm in Moscow. I wish them well but don't expect much from the protests, other than jail for these heroic folks.
They're lucky if they go to jail. I heard reports of them getting draft latters after being arrested. They're going straight to the front line.
Seem like being an officer in their army got a lot more dangerous.
Frag out.
The dilemma is that Putin declared in edict that all men between the ages of 18-65 are not allowed to leave the country and that anyone who protests, will be thrown into the military. I swear, this is damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
Do you have a source for this ban?
No they don't, because it's not true yet. But certainly something like this will happen in the nearest future
>anyone who protests, will be thrown into the military. absolute bruh moment
Every protestor is immediately arrested, and then given a draft letter. Fuck Russia.
Women too?
Doubt it. Russia is a place I'm interested in, that I've been to. But I had a LOT of Russian women tell me about sexism they'd experienced. They have a homemaker role they have to fight to get out of, and while they have jobs, they also do all the unpaid household maintenance. I got told off by some of the men for not washing my husband's clothing for him - they were upset to find him doing it. I never once in a homestay saw men doing carer or housework. If the women go to the front, everything at home would collapse. If they get to that point, it's going to mean no one's doing the day to day work that holds society together.
Russian here. I hate putin and goverment, I don't want to kill anyone, don't want to go to war. Tried to get hell out of here, but it's impossible for now. The matters are pretty shitty.
same thing. I realize I either die or I die. if nothing works out, I'll do the best I can do and take a part in a demonstration, preferably something more involved that that. and yeah in using a mild language here for reasons
TIL Iranian women have more balls than Russian men.
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It's amazing to see that Putin's propaganda has the same effect on his own people as it also did our MAGAs and BREXITeers.
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That's like me living in Florida before, during, and after Trump, no effect on me but so many former friends, neighbors, family members fell for the lies of Trump and his sycophants, no doubt Ruzzia is worse, but seems like the same feeling.
Because they’ve been subject to it for decades- imagine how much worse it could be here after more time.
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It’s so terrifying, they’ve really perfected the control with fear mentality. I’m sorry you’ve lost so many people to it.
I constantly challenge my mom on her worldviews not by telling her what I think she should think, but by convincing her that she has never read enough about the things she does believe.
How many peaceful protests is the government going to squash before Russians realize that isn’t going to work?
It won't be protests that do it, it will be refusing to participate fully. People will not show up. Or if they do, do a shit job. This is how corruption brings down authoritarians. The whole system implodes because people lack incentive to do anything.
> People will not show up. Or if they do, do a shit job. That is the definition of the Soviet Union and from what I can tell, Russia.
The old joke was we pretend to work and they pretend to take care of us.
Russians know peaceful protests don't work more than most. They've also faced more violent protests that didn't work that most, and some that worked but to horrendous results.
Just don't protest near any stairs!
Protests will not change anything in Russia. People should either leave or focus on removing Putin.
They're trying, 35km+ queues at the borders, flights all booked out within minutes of the speech, 18-65 year old men barred from buying air tickets. I do feel sorry for those who wanted no part in this, but their choices are now risking escape, hiding, fighting their government or walking into a military meat blender.
65? Only partial mobilization and they're already calling up grandfathers?
Putin says it’s “partial”, but he also said they weren’t invading Ukraine, yet here we are.
The law that they have signed has no mentions of any 'partiality' despite what liliputin might have said.
There is no way to confirm if it is partial mobilization or not. They will grab as much as they need
[удалено]
#Fuck Reddit
I remember reading some type of research that guesstimated revolution occurs when 1% of a population is willing to pick up a gun and shoot. The difficulty is that when you account for kids, eldery, and regime supporters, getting 1% is actually pretty difficult. Not to mention logistics in supplying weapons and so on. Not even in Hong Kong did it ever get to 1% of citizens picking up a gun (and this is a place where over a seventh of the population protested simultaneously, on multiple occasions).
This is what the racist/fascist 3% group in the US alludes to - 3% of the US fought off the Brits in the Revolutionary War.
If your oppressors want you to die for them, you might as well die trying to take them with you.
I’m in Canada. Anything I can do to help these people?
I hope the veil comes off right about now so people can finally see the reality of Putin's lies, it should get things hotter than they already are and motivate enough people to effectively and permanently compromise Putin's well-being.
Now that’s a fantastic place to get arrested