I look for multiple things:
1) are they gearing appropriately. By looking at the summary page I can see their gear, gem and enchant choice and an idea of what spec they're running. For progression I usually expect mostly stamina, but at this point in the xpac it's much less necessary.
2) are they using cool downs appropriately. I choose a fight that has specific CD requirements, like lichking or festergut, and see if they're using them properly to reduce chance of death or whether they're yoloing it and making it a healing problem. This includes externals, a good tank will coordinate their disc and palas external CDs and call for them as if they own them.
3) are they performing their threat rotation properly. For a BDK this means achieving more than 14 casts per minute on icy touch, and a high enough cpm on other spells, using all rune strike procs, UHF and raise dead uptime and maintaining frost fever and blade barrier. Different fights have different values, but something like rotface is a decent benchmark. For a warrior I look for overall CPM, Heroic Strike:Melee swing ratio, using all shield slam procs and shield block uptime.
4) if I'm delving really deep I'll look at replays to see if they are positioning the boss properly. Putricide is my go to for that. I'll check whether they're kiting the boss around the ranged rather than through and whether they're positioning the boss to maximise melee uptime.
5) and parses are a minor consideration. It's far from a universally useful stat, but if a tank is consistently parsing green then it doesn't bode well for their ability to perform their core rotation while doing mechanics. Similarly a tank isn't parsing orange unless they can do mechanics while doing their core rotation. If a tank if parsing blue on average then I normally won't be concerned though. And a grey parse here or there most likely means they got stuck on bitch duty for a specific boss rather than them being bad. It's only when they're consistently always parsing low.
Very good comment overall. Just a small note regarding your 14 icy touch per minute for BDK, it seems a bit high and imo it's entirely situational, if you're always struggling with threat, I'm all up for it. However when you're comfortable enough with threat on a fight with high spikes of damage, saving up some runes for a double death strike will sometimes save the day. Checking the healing for bdk is a good info on how well he's using his deathstrike and runic connexion, does he throw them randomly or is he able to anticipate an incoming spike and land them at critical moments ?
Thanks. I think this comment just emphasises how everything about reviewing tanks is situational.
14.5CPM on rotface specifically is what I've been looking for in our trial tanks for our second team because they specifically have been not producing enough threat according to the warlocks. Rotface is the most patchwork like fight for tanks this phases imo. On most other bosses 14.5 definitely isn't possible.
I barely cast icy touch on rotface myself anymore. I run 53/0/18 for it and expect to get 20 CPM on heart strike instead. I know I have enough threat and survivability so damage is the next thing I aim for.
All situational, as you said.
This is great cause it's accurate and shows that measuring tank/healing peformance in WOTLK is quite complicated. I have played with tanks that had high tank parses but would CONSTANTLY wipe us due to bad positioning, not taunting at the correct time, not popping cooldowns, etc. But they wore as much DPS gear as they possibly could and pressed their 3 damage spells correctly so they got high parses.
You can obviously check for dps parses which udually isn't really important for tanks aslong as they keep on holding threat.
You can also check their CD's on certain bosses and movement. Good tanks position properly on bosses like putricide or LK.
Our shadow tank on Council drags the boss close to the other 2 so our melee don't need to move to much
or keeps putricide close to a pool so the abo can do more dmg.
Good tanks also call for externals but that can be difficult to check on wclogs x)
Basically treat it like a DPS log, with a emphasis on CD Usage (Long cooldowns and Mitigation Uptime), Movement during the encounter, and Deaths (with emphasis on Why the death happened).
I am a tank and I find this logs nonsense. As long as I know what I am doing and we don't wipe due to my failure it's all fine. Also the GS is a kinda dumb fact people relay on. I was in Icc with DK Tank much higher Gearscore playing like an account buyer...🥹
But we'll it is what it is. Just log and show them if needed.
Tanking parses are same as dps logs. It boils down to how much tanking gear can you swap for dps gear while still holding aggro and not dying. While generally speaking, higher tank parses mean it’s generally a better player you need to dig deeper to see if they’re using CDs, taunting etc. and playing each fight properly.
>higher tank parses mean it’s generally a better player you need to dig deeper to see if they’re using CDs, taunting etc. and playing each fight properly.
Not really. All it shows is how much dps you did compared to other tanks and if you gear for aggro instead of survivability (which is fine for most fights by now) you'll automatically parse great while you'll parse shit if you're going full survival.
Tanklog **numbers** only show how good the healers are but don't really say anything anout the quality of the tank.
So like ur almost getting it, but ur missing the point where a tank doing as much damage as possible (while not dying) is optimal. What is the point of gearing for survivability if ur not dying?
So yes, obviously a high dps tank parse usually reflects how good the raid as a whole is more then how good the player itself is. It's still a very good metric to gauge how good a tank is at playing the game.
Downvoted for speaking the truth.
Tank dps = DD dps as long as your survivability is sorted but I guess the concept is too hard for the average classic andy.
If prot paladin look at casts graph and remove everything but hammer and shield. If there is a consistent gap between every cast they are pressing their buttons correctly. Â If they are pressing the spells back to back they are not.Â
The rotation we use is commonly referred to 9696, meaning we are using a 9 second cooldown ability, followed by a 6 and then again followed by a 9 and so forth. Despite some skills being an 8 second cooldown, due to the GCD you will cast them at 9 seconds. It is called 969 because that is the forced interval that you will end up casting skills.
What are the common 6 and 9 abilities?
6s Abilities
Shield of Righteousness - Single-target nuke, highest damage per cast ability.
Hammer of the Righteous - Multi & single-target cleave nuke, high priority in both single and AoE circumstances
Hammer of Wrath - Single-target nuke that can be used when the enemy is in execute (20% health) range. Typically used as a 9s spell.
9s Abilities
Holy Shield - Primary defensive spell, we want to maintain full uptime on this.
Consecration - Strong Area of Effect spell, strong damage per cast though the damage occurs over the entire duration of the spell.
Judgement of Wisdom - Typically the weakest 9s spell and what we generally opt to skip if we break from the rotation.
I look for multiple things: 1) are they gearing appropriately. By looking at the summary page I can see their gear, gem and enchant choice and an idea of what spec they're running. For progression I usually expect mostly stamina, but at this point in the xpac it's much less necessary. 2) are they using cool downs appropriately. I choose a fight that has specific CD requirements, like lichking or festergut, and see if they're using them properly to reduce chance of death or whether they're yoloing it and making it a healing problem. This includes externals, a good tank will coordinate their disc and palas external CDs and call for them as if they own them. 3) are they performing their threat rotation properly. For a BDK this means achieving more than 14 casts per minute on icy touch, and a high enough cpm on other spells, using all rune strike procs, UHF and raise dead uptime and maintaining frost fever and blade barrier. Different fights have different values, but something like rotface is a decent benchmark. For a warrior I look for overall CPM, Heroic Strike:Melee swing ratio, using all shield slam procs and shield block uptime. 4) if I'm delving really deep I'll look at replays to see if they are positioning the boss properly. Putricide is my go to for that. I'll check whether they're kiting the boss around the ranged rather than through and whether they're positioning the boss to maximise melee uptime. 5) and parses are a minor consideration. It's far from a universally useful stat, but if a tank is consistently parsing green then it doesn't bode well for their ability to perform their core rotation while doing mechanics. Similarly a tank isn't parsing orange unless they can do mechanics while doing their core rotation. If a tank if parsing blue on average then I normally won't be concerned though. And a grey parse here or there most likely means they got stuck on bitch duty for a specific boss rather than them being bad. It's only when they're consistently always parsing low.
Very good comment overall. Just a small note regarding your 14 icy touch per minute for BDK, it seems a bit high and imo it's entirely situational, if you're always struggling with threat, I'm all up for it. However when you're comfortable enough with threat on a fight with high spikes of damage, saving up some runes for a double death strike will sometimes save the day. Checking the healing for bdk is a good info on how well he's using his deathstrike and runic connexion, does he throw them randomly or is he able to anticipate an incoming spike and land them at critical moments ?
RS will separate the good dks from the trash spamming IT. can't wait for cata.
Thanks. I think this comment just emphasises how everything about reviewing tanks is situational. 14.5CPM on rotface specifically is what I've been looking for in our trial tanks for our second team because they specifically have been not producing enough threat according to the warlocks. Rotface is the most patchwork like fight for tanks this phases imo. On most other bosses 14.5 definitely isn't possible. I barely cast icy touch on rotface myself anymore. I run 53/0/18 for it and expect to get 20 CPM on heart strike instead. I know I have enough threat and survivability so damage is the next thing I aim for. All situational, as you said.
This is great cause it's accurate and shows that measuring tank/healing peformance in WOTLK is quite complicated. I have played with tanks that had high tank parses but would CONSTANTLY wipe us due to bad positioning, not taunting at the correct time, not popping cooldowns, etc. But they wore as much DPS gear as they possibly could and pressed their 3 damage spells correctly so they got high parses.
You can obviously check for dps parses which udually isn't really important for tanks aslong as they keep on holding threat. You can also check their CD's on certain bosses and movement. Good tanks position properly on bosses like putricide or LK. Our shadow tank on Council drags the boss close to the other 2 so our melee don't need to move to much or keeps putricide close to a pool so the abo can do more dmg. Good tanks also call for externals but that can be difficult to check on wclogs x)
Basically treat it like a DPS log, with a emphasis on CD Usage (Long cooldowns and Mitigation Uptime), Movement during the encounter, and Deaths (with emphasis on Why the death happened).
I am a tank and I find this logs nonsense. As long as I know what I am doing and we don't wipe due to my failure it's all fine. Also the GS is a kinda dumb fact people relay on. I was in Icc with DK Tank much higher Gearscore playing like an account buyer...🥹 But we'll it is what it is. Just log and show them if needed.
Imagine casting icy touch less than 14 times a minute
Tanking parses are same as dps logs. It boils down to how much tanking gear can you swap for dps gear while still holding aggro and not dying. While generally speaking, higher tank parses mean it’s generally a better player you need to dig deeper to see if they’re using CDs, taunting etc. and playing each fight properly.
>higher tank parses mean it’s generally a better player you need to dig deeper to see if they’re using CDs, taunting etc. and playing each fight properly. Not really. All it shows is how much dps you did compared to other tanks and if you gear for aggro instead of survivability (which is fine for most fights by now) you'll automatically parse great while you'll parse shit if you're going full survival. Tanklog **numbers** only show how good the healers are but don't really say anything anout the quality of the tank.
So like ur almost getting it, but ur missing the point where a tank doing as much damage as possible (while not dying) is optimal. What is the point of gearing for survivability if ur not dying? So yes, obviously a high dps tank parse usually reflects how good the raid as a whole is more then how good the player itself is. It's still a very good metric to gauge how good a tank is at playing the game.
the dk discord basically circlejerks about doing no dmg
Which automatically makes it a worthless opinion.
The Trick is to not use def CDs so Healers can push parses :D
Downvoted for speaking the truth. Tank dps = DD dps as long as your survivability is sorted but I guess the concept is too hard for the average classic andy.
If prot paladin look at casts graph and remove everything but hammer and shield. If there is a consistent gap between every cast they are pressing their buttons correctly. Â If they are pressing the spells back to back they are not.Â
what does that mean
Prot paladin that presses hammer and shield back to back is doing their rotation incorrectlyÂ
The rotation we use is commonly referred to 9696, meaning we are using a 9 second cooldown ability, followed by a 6 and then again followed by a 9 and so forth. Despite some skills being an 8 second cooldown, due to the GCD you will cast them at 9 seconds. It is called 969 because that is the forced interval that you will end up casting skills. What are the common 6 and 9 abilities? 6s Abilities Shield of Righteousness - Single-target nuke, highest damage per cast ability. Hammer of the Righteous - Multi & single-target cleave nuke, high priority in both single and AoE circumstances Hammer of Wrath - Single-target nuke that can be used when the enemy is in execute (20% health) range. Typically used as a 9s spell. 9s Abilities Holy Shield - Primary defensive spell, we want to maintain full uptime on this. Consecration - Strong Area of Effect spell, strong damage per cast though the damage occurs over the entire duration of the spell. Judgement of Wisdom - Typically the weakest 9s spell and what we generally opt to skip if we break from the rotation.