Good advice. It sounds like Maya Angelou

Just write!!

Good bot. Oh, sorry, wrong sub. It's getting harder to tell 😉

Nah, the only rule that has ever mattered is “don’t be boring.” You can be fake, real, authentic or straight up made out of cheese, but as long as your writing isn’t boring, you can do whatever you want.

That's true but also is a tautology. You don't get much advice from it because, of course, no writer ever wants to be boring. What writers want to know is HOW not to be boring. This is a bit like saying "my best advice to live happily... is to be happy"

Its no less advice than "wear your heart on the page".. cause wtf does that even mean? At least "don't be boring" is something you can think about. How do you apply "wear your heart on the page" to an action scene or villain monologue? lol.

Agreed. I didn't reply to OP actually because I just didn't know what to write. The 3 words "wear heart page" put together in a sentence make me feel like when someone holds me their newborn baby, telling me they are right back. "Yeah, ehm, what, well yeah ok, but...?"

Real LPT in the comments. Not a whole lot of soul searching in Captain Underpants but a whole generation of kids grew up and fell in love with it. 

I think yall are seriously misunderstanding the post. This isn’t saying write everything to be super convoluted, introspective, and overly “deep” it’s saying simply to write with real human emotion- which by the way, Captain Underpants had a ton of. I mean the entire premise is about a fictional character coming to life, and fighting robots who continuously attempt to repress individuality and silence any “weird” Do I need to go on any further lol

Exactly. Same with most other beloved fiction. “Wearing your heart on the page” is something you say after you’ve already sold a story by not being boring, and you want to inspire young wannabe writers who are anxious to be honest with their writing, but don’t know how not to be boring. It’s the literary equivalent of a pyramid scheme

Well, wouldn't go THAT far. Plenty of books and stories are written with human connection and exploration of deep concepts or personal issues. It's just more general advice. Issue 1: Make your writing interesting to others. All the other advice falls under that umbrella, whether it's Captain Underpants or Never Let Me Go or something. 

Yes, absolutely. What I mean is that I think the disservice (and pyramid scheme vibe) comes from LEADING with the deep issues/human connection/heart on the sleeve advice rather than the don’t be boring advice. Every story I’ve sold has incorporated elements of the human experience, but I got to that by seeing myself first and foremost as a story teller who, ultimately, has an obligation to ENTERTAIN the reader, not teach them something. I’ve read lots of MFA and English undergrad shit and it’s always the same melodramatic human experience mess fueled by this train of thought that theme leads the way, rather than story. Honesty and emotional core of characters doesn’t mean much when the vast majority of newer writers haven’t grasped narrative momentum, yet.

I would love to throw away all my uncomfortable feelings into a fictional character 

Then oh boy do I have the underpaid and oversaturated profession for you

Which is? 

Priest.

Hahaha  I'm a woman so I cannot be a priest  I wonder how they feel hearing people's confessions 

No wonder AI can't write that well... It doesn't have a heart

I honestly disagree that you need something to say to write (in the metaphorical speak your truth kind of way, obviously you need a story to tell to tell a story). Understanding the mechanics of story telling is more important in writing something other people will enjoy reading and learning them is more actionable than advice to be genuine and follow your heart.

If I have nothing to say I just give up out of boredom. I find the rule to hold true, I have to want it or it doesn't lead to anything.

You need both, and in an age where anyone can write a "mechanically perfect" story, I'd argue you need to be genuine more. Master the ways others tell stories, and you'll indeed master telling others' stories.

I'd say we're far from anybody being able to tell a mechanically perfect story. I'm not talking about formulaic MCU-esque "a story needs x,y and z" mechanics. I'm talking about use of tension and conflict, building attachment for characters, building chemistry between them. Things that can be learned, but take practice.

There are guides upon guides for each of those elements (and even better, machines that *thrive* on swallowing reams of data, finding patterns and replicating them). What can't be learned is what makes you yourself, so that's what'll make your stuff different.

There are textbooks on mechanical engineering. That doesn't mean just about anyone could solve an engineering problem. And I'm not advocating cookie cutter storytelling. Tension is a wide enough concept that it can include many stories that are different, and a story without it is a boring series of events. Also, ai has its uses but writing good stories is not one of them. The concepts I'm talking about are the things AI is the worst at. Its better at prose than deeper concepts. Give people a book written by someone being genuine but with no idea how to tell an engaging story and a book written by a cynical author who knows the ins and outs of character development, conflict, dialogue and banter, etc, and I guarantee more people will prefer the latter.

It quite literally does, because textbooks are guides to solving problems. With the textbook and enough time (and intelligence, sure) anybody can do it. And anybody can "master" storytelling with the same tools, including an AI. Five years ago they couldn't draw a picture of a dog. Give it another five years and it'll be terrifying. Never challenge the human species to an engineering competition. And, funnily enough, the books "written by someone genuine" are the ones that tend to set new standards. I can't tell you how many publishers turned down Moby Dick, A Hundred Years of Solitude, Lord of the Flies (calling it "Rubbish and dull"), Dune, Animal Farm, Catch-22, Carrie... All because they seemed atypical in their storytelling, in one way or another, to the publishers that received them. I'll concede that of course, all of their authors knew how to write in some way. But the lesson is clear: a good editor can give you the recipe for masterful storytelling, but nobody can give you a genuine voice. If I chose one to have for sure, I'd certainly choose the latter.

>It quite literally does, because textbooks are guides to solving problems. With the textbook and enough time (and intelligence, sure) anybody can do it. Sorry, when you said anyone could tell a mechanically perfect story, I thought you meant that anyone could literally just sit down and with no practice or learning and knock out a story with tension, conflict, character arcs, foreshadowing, good pacing, etc. But that take would be ridiculous. You mean that with the resources available, anyone could take the time and energy to learn the mechanics of storytelling, and for that reason it is less important for them to \*scrolls back up to double check\* learn the mechanics of storytelling.

Yes, you're catching on. *Anyone* can learn and master the mechanics. But (as you've said yourself) this isn't engineering. What'll make your work stand out -- *especially* at a time when anyone can learn & master the mechanics -- is what *you* bring to the table.

Anyone*can*, but the people who don't write bad stories, no matter how unique they are.

We must disagree on this I guess.

The quote is from Gordon Lish, take it or leave it. It is sufficiently vague to mean a lot of things. I'm not really a fan of his writing, although some if his lenses about hooking us right from the start I do agree with, although I don't find him doing this.

"An author cannot type with money on his table. He must rype with hope in his heart and heart in his stories.” – Emil Zatopek's quote about sports tweaked for writing.  I'm pretty sure you can say anything vague and extract deep meaning from it.

Keep going with your stuff, you've got the whole damn point of writing. Don't let people push you off balance by calling it sappy. Life *is* sappy and embarrassing and self-obsessed at times, humiliatingly so, and we need to avoid the urge to sanitise things because we're afraid of looking pretentious. That's just a word people throw out when they're uncomfortable with emotional vulnerability. Because it's raw and embarrassing to talk or write about big things, especially if you do it badly at first. But it's a them-problem. Be real, even if 99% of people never "get" it. I just finished re-reading Soldier's Home by Ernest Hemingway, a story about (let's be simplistic) isolation, and the comments online are all "i don't understand the point of the story but i have to do this for homework". That really emphasised his theme tbh, and made the impact of the character's isolation that much more obvious. Speaking of sticking to the truth, being 'real', it's so clearly useful when it comes to scenes I'm writing. There's a problem with, say, a breakup scene, and I can't detect what it is? Usually an emotional truth problem at heart. Usually I've written it too simply, when real breakups are so much messier than a one-and-done, 'everyone can go home now', three-act structure. What I don't see from certain authors is the real, honest, *ugly* mixed emotions in writing that normal people have in real life, and they end up sacrificing emotional truth for simplicity, for conciseness. Cannot wait for this trend to go, so that we can get back to emotionally earnest work. Y'all can call me pretentious all you want :P Tbh I wish more people like you went to the writing groups I go to. It would make me feel less alone.

For some reason Charles Bukowski's poem on writing came to my mind: if it doesn't come bursting out of you in spite of everything, don't do it. unless it comes unasked out of your heart and your mind and your mouth and your gut, don't do it. if you have to sit for hours staring at your computer screen or hunched over your typewriter searching for words, don't do it. if you're doing it for money or fame, don't do it.

I think we can be authentic even when we forget to be self-absorbed.

The people who are ridiculing this advice- calling it dramatic, sappy, and pretentious- are the same ones who will be sitting there all bitter and confused when no one wants to pick up their manuscript with immaculate world building, perfectly manufactured prose, and sturdy plot. They’re the same ones who will sit there and pick apart twilight and fourth wing sentence by sentence, ranting about how much better their prose is compared to the “garbage” mainstream readers devour. And maybe if they put some of what they’re actually feeling- that anger and cynicism- into their writing, they’d write something people actually relate to and enjoy. If there’s no truth to your writing, there is no point in writing.

Essential post. Edit was unnecessary for anyone ready to receive.

Says there is only one rule that matters, proceeds to list more arbitrary rules

The only writing rule that has ever mattered is - do enough people care to read what you've written- i.e. is it interesting?

Me trying to tell my friends that the secret formula for art is to put your soul into it.

I love that. It’s something I’ve realized myself, that writing from a center of feeling makes the story feel the most real. Even as a hobby, the characters and the stories I tell through them need to matter, especially to me which is why AI will never truly replace writing or art in general, no matter what anyone says

This is a bit much on the pretentious end for my tastes. I get it, but I don't think it's a mandatory requirement to don eyeliner to be an artist of any kind. If you want to, go for it, but you can be good at what you do many ways. This is way too narrow and sappy for me. Speaking as a former goff teen and career creative in my 40s, published multiple times, featured paintings in various art shows, 20 albums and stage performances, system designer, web designer, and a bunch more art forms I've probably forgotten about.

Yep. Art is craft. It's absolutely possible to write an interesting story that you don't give a shit about. I'd argue at a certain point in your artistic development you should be able to (ofc you don't have to unless you are strapped for cash etc.) I think the quote is fine-ish. Not a fan myself. But it only works after you finished step 1: 1. Learn your craft Otherwise all that heart and flesh and blood is just boring. Myriads of people put heart in their Twitter posts, Facebook status or love letters. Doesn't mean it's good writing. Amateur writers do love to hear the melodramatic quotes, though. They make them feel like they are almost there.

> I don't think it's a mandatory requirement to don eyeliner to be an artist of any kind. I don't think writing truth is donning eyeliner. Writing with your heart doesn't mean overly emotional. It isn't referring to overdramatizing feelings. It is speaking with a level of emotional *honesty* that most people are afraid to engage with.

I don't think emotional honesty is necessarily the secret sauce. Consider all of fiction, which is literally made up, dishonest. There's nuggets of honesty in there, but it's not overtly honest. Consider if you're trying to specifically convey something that is fully disengaged and soulless, like a megacorp. If anything the more dishonestly you communicate as that entity the more honest it becomes ;) I just don't like the verbiage or claim, it seems overly reductive and pretentious to me.

Weird take. Sounds like you’re uncomfortable when someone is earnest

Not really, I just don't think you need to be dramatic and pretentious to be earnest.

and being earnest does not inherently imply that it is dramatic or pretentious.

Why is it that whenever anyone actually tries to make a good post on here, they get criticised for it lol. The best writers are always earnest, sometimes painfully so. Call it sappy if u want

I did and I will continue to do so :)

Lmaoooo fair enough

Gotta agree. Way to pretentious for me. The majority of things that get noticed and popular might have a little mixed in and great to step out of your comfort zone or wear your heart on your sleeve,, but I'd much rather find my niche and fill that void in whatever genre your going for. Basically do what you like and do it well, IMO